suicide

[Mitzi]

Have any of you ever considered this? Strange question, I know. But I talk to lots of people I talk to say it has briefly crossed their minds.
I know it did mine. When my son got so sick, when my ex-daughter-in-law did what she did, when my husband lost his job.....I remember I just wanted the pain to go away. But, most people do have built in "brakes" to this, I think. I just tell myself that things WILL get better and I can handle whatever life hands me.
I think suicide is answer to unbearable pain and despair....Things you go through, things you've seen. And police officers see a lot, as you well know.
Just when I feel I can't stand it anymore, from somewhere, something tells me to hang in there. I think it will always tell me that. This world is a beautiful place where bad things happen. Good things happen too!

[Snoopy1]

Keep remembering that last paragraph. It is a good attitude to have. Suicide only causes more pain for our families and friends.

[Jim Burnes]

The things you mention: work, illness and relationships are only fleeting. The lack of a good job is bearable, in that your life standards improve with money yet exactly how important is the fine material objects compared to a settled, peaceful family? If you can obtain both, it is great.

The illness of your son is your greatest weight now, it can consume you if you allow it to. But he is here now, and never far from you, as is your husband. These times are a gift to you and you know, your presense is a gift to them. Nothing material is of more importance than the family. Although I'm retired and out of the game for the past 14 years, the poorest, most stressed families were the ones without any faith and I will always remember them in prayer. From what I've read of you, I know you don't lack faith and you understand to pray...

Suicide is something I know of, because in my culture, sadly, it is too commonly used to escape present day pressures. It goes against all teaching however, and only adds to the burden of those who remain here.

Our lives are not ours to take. All the material things we possess we can dispose of, but Great Mystery (God as you say Him) created the spark of life through the parents and within the Great Mystery we will live out our days. My parents first born died within a month of birth, that was the length of time allowed. My parents did not curse or question why. They lived, produced all of us now living, then they in the course of their lives passed over into their next lives in their 90s.

Someone in an earlier post stated its the quility of life, not the length. I agree. History is full of truely evil men who lived to old age. And of good men who die young.

Which of the two types were the more honorable?

I think Honor is important enough a concept that it must be kept in mind.

People do confront the most radical problems in their lives, and the results make them happy or unhappy. But there is also the time it takes from the thing which made us unhappy, until in the future when we can accept what has transpired.

Acceptance, forebearance and absolute faith in the Great Mystery spares a person from suicide.

Jim Burnes

[shooter1201]

Mitzi...

Have you ANY first-hand experience with victims of suicide and their families? I have...

I've lost 2 students to suicide. I beat myself over the head daily for NOT recognizing the 'signs' leading up to the first one. It took ME 3 years before I could talk about what happened to him in public, without breaking down in tears. Imagine what it does to his MOM. He shot himself on Thanksgiving Day, 5 years ago, today.

[Mitzi]

No, I have had no experience with it. I was greatly concerned about my son at the beginning of his divorce but he did quite well with it after the initial pain. It's pretty hard to have to work with your ex-wife, her ex-felon mother and the man she had an affair with. He was taunted and teased and would come home so angry, he couldn't talk. We just kept talking to him, telling him what goes around,comes around. I couldn't get him to a counselor so I went to one. She told us just to keep doing what we were doing and try to watch for signs, such as giving his stuff away or talking about suicide.
I sure was worried. If I had lost my son that way, I know I wouldn't want to live. But, his ex-wife was fired, her mother transferred and the other man demoted. Our son is doing much better but now is having tremendous health problems.
It's just a situation I watch very closely.

[Mack811]

My best friend killed himself. I was best man at his wedding and pall bearer at his funeral in the same church. I thought it the most selfish thing he could have done. Broke a lot of hearts. His parents, daughter, siblings and friends. Life is ever changing. Situations can become overwhelming but the vast majority are temporary. (I realize that cases of terminal illness are not). A trick I have always used when I was down was to ask myself...."Will this matter a year from now?" Most of the time the answer is no. A person can most always change thier situation. Support from loved ones is important. The will to carry on and survive are basic to human nature. Use them to your advantage. I refuse to surrender under any circumstances, that is just how I deal with life. My philosophy has always been not to take life too seriously 'cause we are not getting out of it alive. Why rush the inevitable? This life is a wonderous gift and should not be taken for granted. Please, anyone that may have feelings of despair or consider suicide, talk to someone. There are lots of people that love you and you may not even realise it. Watch the sun rise, play with a child,take a walk in the woods or on the beach and marvel at the beauty of it all. Whatever higher power you choose to believe in has created a world of wonder and challenge for us and given us a soul that can appreciate it. Don't waste it. Peace be with you all.

[SpecOpsWarrior]

I personally have never really contemplated suicide. I dont think I could kill myself over lifes issues. I have contemplated the mysteries of death and what awaits us after we have gone, but I honestly dont think I could kill myself over the issues that life throws at me. With that being said, I could easily give my life for a cause that I think is just and honorable.

But back to the topic of suicide. I have two noteworthy experiences that deal with suicide.

When I was 15 I had a friend named Charlie, he was pretty cool and a good friend to hang out with. Charlie's father was a pretty good guy to, at least to a 15 year old that didnt know any better and didnt care. Charlie's dad was pretty down on his luck and had a hard time making ends meet, he was a single father with two kids and a low paying job. He usually didnt have much money but when he did he would buy us beer and occasionally some pot (I really didnt do to much weed). More importantly he didnt care if we brought girls over to his apartment.

One day me and Charlie were sitting on the couch playing a Nintendo when Charlie's dad came home and pulled out a 1911 and started shooting at us. I dont know if he missed on purpose but he missed, as we started running out the door he fired one final shot. We ran to my house and told my mom who immediately called the police. After about five minutes me and Charlie went back to the apartment and found Charlie's dad laying in the doorway of his apartment, the final shot he fired was in his mouth.

That same night Charlie's grandparents came down from Virginia and took Charlie back with them. Much to my parents dismay I wanted to go to the funeral for Charlie's dad, I had hoped to see Charlie there and tell him goodbye and tell him how sorry I was about his fathers death. Charlie didnt come to his fathers funeral, and I never heard from him again.

The next one is duty related. About a year into this job I got a call about a man shooting a rifle in a residential neighborhood. After arriving on scene I encountered a naked man sitting on a porch with a 30/30 sitting on his lap. I drew down on him and told him to put the rifle down, he put the rifle under his chin and pulled the trigger, fortunately for him, and me, it misfired, he went to cycle another round and came up empty. He ate a face full of freeze+p and took a trip to the ER for evaluation for emergency commitment. On the way to the local psych ward he became pretty calm, we talked alot and he even apologized for causing so much trouble. I told him not to worry about it and used the old classic "$hit happens man". I dropped him off and went about my life.

About two years later I was in Wally World doing some shopping and a guy I barely recognized came up and called me by my name. I coudlnt place the face and told him I didnt recognize him. He started describing what happend and mentioned me gassing him. I figured this was gonna be one of those off-duty encounters that we always talk about on this board. Instead the guy started talking about how he had turned his life around and thanked me for what I had done for him!

Now I was pretty confused becuase all I had done was cause the man great amounts of physical pain by spraying him. When I relayed this thought to him he said it was the fact that I had actually talked to him like a normal person on the way to the psych ward. I didnt really see what the big deal was about me talking to him but he seemed genuinely sincere and appreciative. He actually credited me for saving his life when it was actually just dumb luck that his rifle misfired. Every once in awhile I run into the guy and every single time he thanks me for what I did for him. He is know a volunteer minister at our local jail and is trying his best to help others. Now I know I didnt save the guys life but it is a good feeling to know that actually doing my job helped someone and had a positive impact on his life.

[ 11-23-2001: Message edited by: SpecOpsWarrior ]

[tcsd1236]

Yes I have.Not with the intent of harming myself mind you, but an academic curiosity as to the motivations of suicidal persons. I've had training in one form or another for over 20 years that answers the whys, but you try to put yourself in their place and determine what would drive you to that step.
BTW, there is an organization in NYC that deals specifically with officer suicides. They put out a video and training plan on the subject, which I obtained a copy of a number of years ago.
If anyone is interested in that organization, I can dig it out of my files for you.

[blondie72]

SpecOps...the second story was very inspiring!

I'm so sorry about the first one. What a shame.

[Mitzi]

I one time ended up in the hospital overnight because I felt suicidal. I knew I couldn't do anything to myself but I just wanted the pain of my sons condition to go away.
I could not stop crying, I couldn't move my arms and legs and kept screaming I was going to die. Nothing they did helped so they told my husband they were going to sedate me. He told them to give him some time with me.
Even tho I couldn't move my arms and legs, I was in restraints. He took off the restraints, sat me up and put me on his lap in a chair where I cried and cried and he just kept soothing me. I fell asleep in his arms and then he put me back to bed.
I never did have to have any meds and the next morning, I felt much better. I was embarassed about it but they all kept telling me not to be, that my system just overloaded.
I went into counseling to help me try to accept what has happened to my son and it has helped a lot.
I did have a bad time last night, just withdrew into a shell but my counselor said I will get over that too when I accept the fact that my son is going to be allright. But, I still don't trust the situation. He's getting worse. All this must be so hard on my husband cause he worries about our son and me too.
I don't know what I would do without my husband tho! He was wonderful!

[Jessica]

*** First, I apologize to my fellow Officer.Com members for the length of my post ***

Mitzi,
I have read several of your posts in the last few months and I feel I can speak from experience on this issue. I’ve never replied to you before because I wasn’t sure exactly what to say. I pray that I am able to write to you in a wise, truthful and yet caring manner.

Two years ago I was in the same situation as you. It took many years to reach a breaking point, but unfortunately I got there. Suicide was a thought, but I could never bring myself to dwell on the idea for more than a few seconds. Suicide is such a very cruel answer, not to you, but to the ones who love you. I kept telling myself that there just HAD to be a better answer.

10 1/2 years ago, I gave birth to a bouncing baby girl! She was always ill and extremely irritable. She didn’t enjoy sleeping even though everyone else in the family enjoyed it so much! At the age of two, along with her respiratory problems, I also noticed she was not developing as quickly as she should.

At 2 1/2 she was diagnosed with a terminal genetic disorder. I felt as if my heart had been ripped from its chest. My entire life was shattered. I could have given up, but I didn’t. I sort of put my feelings on the “back burner” and worked very hard with other parents to help find a cure for our ill children. I didn’t deal with my problems or realize just how traumatized I really was.

One day the reality of the situation caught up with me. It hit me like a Semi-truck splattering a bug on a windshield. By this time I was 32, I had back surgery (which was another issue and major part of my problems) and I felt as if my entire life had passed me by. I loved my daughter, but I began to realize how I had harmed myself by watching her wither away for nine years. Anyone who has been a caregiver for a terminally ill person will know what I’m talking about!

When Kaity was nine, I decided I HAD to do something. I could no longer stay in the situation I was in. I decided, after much thought, that I wanted to go into Law Enforcement...my hidden dream of a life I left long ago! At the time I thought shooting a gun was the most important thing to being a cop. If I couldn’t shoot I couldn’t be a cop...right?! I asked my brother-in-law to teach me the tricks of the trade.

From that day on my life took a drastic change. I felt a freedom like I had never felt before. I felt as if my prison door had been opened. I hired an in home sitter for Kaity and three to four times a week I would go to the range. I would shoot and shoot and shoot some more. I bought one gun, then another, and then a few more.

One day I went to town to buy ammo so I could go to the range again! There was a sign on the door, “Part-time help needed.”

Hmm...

I told the manager, “I know nothing about guns, but I’m a quick learner...so teach me.” To my surprise, I was hired.

You won’t believe what happened next. Three months after I was hired this little gun shop went up for sale.

Hmmmmm...

It took me a month of thinking because my true passion was to be an officer. After much scrutinizing I thought to myself...what the hell! Given my back problems, I decided to buy the store! I knew I would have to keep one knowledgeable gun salesman at all times because I didn’t know enough, but I knew I could do this! It was a tough decision, but I felt this door had been opened for a reason.

It has been a over a year now in operation and I am having the time of my life. I cannot begin to tell you what this store, the people I work with and the many friends I’ve made has done for my life. Many local town police shop at the store as well as a few at the county Sheriff’s office. I’ve made really good friends with many of them, so I didn’t lose out on Law Enforcement totally! I even was able to do a ride-a-long one night and I had a blast!

***********************************

We were told Kaity would live 6-10 years. She will be 11 in April. She is now bedridden, blind, and deaf. Miraculously she is very peaceful in these latter years. Her grandmother cares for in our home 6-7 days a week while I run the store. In the nine years I gave to my daughter, I was so afraid to leave her. I had never been away from her before! But guess what? Kaity is fine and what is better...her mother is healthy and happy again for the first time in many years.

Is a major life change what you need? I don’t know, but YOU need to find what YOU need. No one on this forum can do that for you. No one in your family will do it for you. The only person than can help you...is you! You cannot care for your family unless YOU are healthy.

That is a hard fact for some Mothers. We are so dedicated to our children. But I learned after many years that yes, I was dedicated to my daughter, and that was good! But what I forgot to do was be dedicated to myself.

I hope you too will see how important your life can be.

I know your son does not share the same disorder as my daughter, but I wanted to share this address with you. I opened this forum before I started working. Each family member has a son or a daughter that is very ill. Together we have found support. I know you would be welcomed with open arms. Come and tell them your story and you will see. No one can begin to understand your problems like another parent. If you find visiting too difficult, I’ll understand, but perhaps one day you will need us and we will be there. http://pub6.ezboard.com/bfamilyfuntime

My Kaity "Bug" when she was healthy and spunky.

Love and happiness to you,
Jessica

[ 11-23-2001: Message edited by: Jessica ]

[jellybean40]

Jessica,
Thank You for that beautiful story.

a very close friend of mine, who had many, many problems in his life, but seemed to always meet people who supported him and gave him help, used to always say how one NEVER knows what's truly going on inside someone's life..and WHY they are the way they are, or why they make the connections with people that they do. it seemed that he would eventually find out that all these people helping him, had, at one time or another, problems or sadnesses in their lives that one could never imagine.

in my eyes, you're pretty amazing. to say i "respect" you is an understatement. i hope you'll always be blessed with the success and happiness that you've earned. and you are right, to give yourself happiness in life is the best gift you can give your children. ...and the picture is beautiful.

[ 11-23-2001: Message edited by: jellybean40 ]

[goodgirl]

Where there is life there is hope.

[ 11-24-2001: Message edited by: goodgirl ]

[Mitzi]

Thanks so much for uyour letter, Jessica. I am not where you are but I'm, getting there. I try not to talk about my son too much because I have been accused, not here, but in other areas of my life of looking for sympathy. So, I learned to keep it mostly to myself in real life. Talking about it here is really unusual for me.
Kaity is a beautiful child. What a smile she had! To look at my son, one would think he was perfectly healthy. but he's not.
I will visit your site when I feel I can. It's really hard for me to talk without crying.
Without my wonderful husband, I don't know what I'd do. I know all this is killing him too but he takes time to seek me out and see how I am doing. He hasn't yet figured out that night time is my worst time and I don't want him to because he needs his rest.
I will get there, I know I will. Thanks so much!

[jellybean40]

Mitzi,
everyone handles things differently. i think sometimes people need to talk about it, but i also think that cant be forced, they have to open up on their own time. i think when you need to let it out, you do. for those that think it's for sympathy, who cares about them. they dont matter, you do. you know how i feel about all of it, and that my thoughts are with you and your family. do what makes you feel best, and helps your stress level.