A Kid, A comment, A Gun and School = your opinion wanted.....

[lazer7]

need your opinion.

2 14 year old boys walking in school parking lot.

they see flat tire on a car, kid says i shot it with gun in my underwear.

teacher hears this, reports it, they call cops and he's suspended from school 1 week.

do you feel school was right to call cops and suspend over mere words?????

i say yes, because schools have ZERO TOLERANCE.

the mom i know is upset and wants to sue school.

i say shes wrong. zero tolerance means no exceptions, and no ones above the law.

your opinions please

p.s. the point is, who is to judge if a kid is serious or kidding. isnt it better to be safe than sorry.

do you think all these kid school shooters are from families that parents said, yes, i knew he'd kill.

none suspected, and im sure if hauled in before it happened, their parents woulda said, he was joking.

so, do you think it was right to suspend this kid above, yes/no

[ 11-22-2001: Message edited by: lazer7 ]

[txinvestigator1]

Since you added this to General Topics, I'll add my opinion.

Absolutely right to call the Police.

Zero tolerance is a stupid idea, it takes common sense out of the equation.

That kid should learn that gun remarks at school are taken seriously, but a week. Some in-school counseling is appropriate, but a week??

[Watchman]

"Zero tolerance is a stupid idea, it takes common sense out of the equation."

Couldnt have said it better...

Examples of "zero tolerance" as reported by the media...

a second grader is suspended for bringing a plastic knife to school to cut her apple with

a 4th grader is suspended for drawing a picture of him and his dad deer hunting

another 4th grader is suspended for drawing a picture of a solider with a gun

Zero tolerance is absloutley dangerous.Some of the people making decisions ought to be fired on the spot.

Breaking the law is one thing. Talking about it is another. It got to the point that there is no common sense involved in the equation at all.

[dkiefner]

I posted this under Ask A Cop, and then saw it here as well, with responses. My response from there:

Hard to say without seeing the actual policy.

Personally, I believe zero tolerance policies are ridiculous, because they give no leeway for discretion or common sense.

When I was in high school (and not that long ago), there were plenty of firearms on school grounds, particularly during hunting season. I personally carried weapons through the halls, with nary a comment nor raised eyebrow from any one. In a school of 2200 students, we had not one incident involving firearms during the time I was a student, or any other time until the zero tolerance silliness became the norm.

[blondie72]

Zero tolerance is a very poor policy.

[Jessica]

When I was in school it was nothing to see a hunting rifle in the truck of a fellow student while on school grounds, but that’s just what it was, “a hunting rifle.“ When I was in school we didn’t fear that idiots would walk in and blow our fellow classmates away.

Unfortunately, times have changed and so have kids. I can see where new guidelines needed to be activated. What I don’t understand are some of the reasons given for suspension? Some of the reasons are utterly ridiculous.

My husband learned very quickly on an airplane a few years back...don’t make remarks about the plane crashing...or you get off the plane. It is forbidden to speak of bombs, planes crashing, terrorism, etc. All he said was “I hope this plane doesn’t have T-tops.” He was making a remark about the plane that fell apart on its way to Hawaii (back in the early 90’s?) He is a joker and meant nothing by the comment he made to his buddy sitting beside him. Unfortunately, he said it just as the stewardess walked by. She made it quite clear if he made another such comment he would have to find another form of transportation. He was totally embarrassed, but he’s never made the mistake of saying the wrong thing again! (At least while flying.

It would seem in this situation the administration could have warned the student about his comment, but I guess that is too complicated for our modern school systems.

[retired]

I'm curious as to what his violation was? What if he had said I had a nuclear weapon in my shorts, would they have reacted the same? Seems to me he didn't threaten anyone, and was obviously joking!

I think the teacher needs to get a grip on reality, and leave some of the hysteria, panic and paranoia for genuine situations.

Retired

[shooter1201]

As a teacher AND a a cop, I have to say that the LAWYERS have ONCE AGAIN, screwed the pooch....

Knee-jerk reactionism has replaced level-headed thinking and common sense, not only in the courtroom, but in the classroom.

[Evnings]

I do not like the School Districts " No Tolerance " policy. It makes the police the heavy in a problem that 95% of the time would be better handled by the school. It puts kids into the system who shouldn't be there. Kids lack maturity, fighting and saying stupid things are a result of this immaturity. Putting a kid into the system doesn't make them more mature, it just gives them a record. Having the parents and the school deal with the kid helps them mature more than a ride to the station does.

I do think that problem kids ought to make the ride, but a majority of the kids that make the ride here are not problem kids.

[Blonde Heat]

All i can say is what a bunch of dumb a**'s. These are the people who keep an eye on our kids 8 hours a day? First off! I think if it was a hazard to the school or something detrimental to the actual student safety, then call the police and deal with it. But come on, Use some common sense here. Some people just need to get a grip.

[klar]

Even though it should be common sense like it is to us, society today has changed it all. We now live in a "its not my fault/problem" society and therefore the zero tolorance policies we see in the schools and some work places are going to keep causing problems. Everyone wants to blame their problems or short falls on something or someone else. Our teachers no longer want to teach our kids like we learned. they want all kids on ridlin or another drug so they have perfect zombies sitting in class soaking up what they think they should know. If a kid happens to think for themselves they are looked at as rebels nowadays. This is a sad state of society that we and the generation before us has brought to bear. We have a say in who we elect to local,state and national government and we are the ones who put the idiots into power who have caused these sweping changes. If we want things to change and get better lets get these present idiots out of office and get some people in office who will get it changed back to a better system. Just remember a proverb I heard once "change is good - but not all changes are good." It is up to the voters to get the changes in place by getting rid of those who helped put or still maintain that these zero tolorance policies are to stay. But then again that is just my opinion.

Klar

[shooter1201]

This is ONE teacher that says 'NO!' to Ritilin and Cylert...BOTH of which are considered 'mind-altering drugs' by the US military. The latest research shows that doctors DON'T know what the LONG TERM dangers of their use are.

If *I* were a kid in school today, *I'D* be diagnosed as ADD/ADHD. My attention span is about 2 seconds...UNLESS.....I am INTERESTED in the topic.

I bend over backwards in my attempts to make my 5th grade Social Studies classes interesting. Do I suceed? Not every day, but often enough to know that when the kids leave my room asking questions and I go home exhausted, I *HAVE* done my job to the best of my abilities.

This year, with my daughter's problem in school, I have witnessed FIRST HAND how ineffective school administrators are with even relatively SIMPLE parental concerns...much less major ones.

School administrators too often throw up their hands, citing 'I don't know WHAT to do, but I have to do SOMETHING' whenever a problem requiring a common sense approach develops. In the end, they are more concerned with covering their asses than they are with doing what is RIGHT....and OUR kids bear the brunt of their ignorance.

[klar]

I know there are some teachers out there that care. You are one of them but the majority of teachers either do not care our they are afraid to try because they know that school administrators are not going to back them up and they will be left out to dry. I am learning more and more about the schools of today as I watch five kids going thru them. I was a teachers son and I know how effective schools were when I was in school there has been a big change since then

Klar

[shooter1201]

IMO, the 'difference' began WAAAAAAY back during the 'Peace Movement' of the Vietnam War-era. All those 'peace freaks' grew up(???) and became sniveling, liberal, bed-wetting lawyers.....and corrupted the NEA, U.S. Dept. of Education, our court systems AND our schools.

[klar]

Yes I will agree with you but I am not going to tell you that I was in school at that time for it will give away my age LOL I just know that by the time they got into their power positions I was out of school and dealing with their idiotic ways.

Klar