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  • Pedro56
    replied
    Hell, I wouldn't worry one bit about the teachers, I would worry though about my friggin parents when they got wind of it.

    Leave a comment:


  • DanteSF
    replied
    Disrespectful? Yup. Funny as hell? Also yes.

    Leave a comment:


  • cleetus0219
    replied
    I don't work at a school. I don't NEED to work at the school to know how things operate because I have to deal with the same type of PC administrative crap they do, only on a different level. They deal with students, I deal with scumbags.

    Yes, some of their rules are asinine, stupid, and over zealous for minor infractions. I won't dispute that at all. But like I posted, it seemed like you were badmouthing people that should and probably DO know better, but have little control over what they can and can't do.

    Getting into trouble for the hand gesture is pretty lame, but the rules have been in effect for some time. The kid probably knew better, but wanted to test the system. Unfortunately he got burned for it, as stupid as it is.

    Sincerely, Einstein

    Leave a comment:


  • zap
    replied
    Originally posted by cleetus0219
    The answer: Use common sense.

    I picked at you because instead of backing an authority figure who works at the school, you choose to instead 'fight the system' because you feel a moral obligation to do so. Well, kudos to you for taking a stand. But in 10 years when your kid gets locked up because he learned to fight the system instead of just do what he's told, you'll be singing a different tune. It appears that you'll be one of those parents that comes in at 3am exclaiming that the "cops are wrong," "my kid shouldn't have been locked up," "there's no way my kid did what you're telling me," and my personal favorite, "I'll have your badge."

    My other post isn't completely directed at you, portions are directed at "you" in general- meaning that it is directed at other parents who cover their kids, right or wrong.

    If you want to change things, get yourself to a PTA or school board meeting, cause a stink, and demand change. But until then, you need to show your kid that you're not on his side when he does things that are not acceptable at the school, which includes calling the counselor names.

    Signed, Einstein

    Well...you still just don't get it.

    I DO back school authority...but not when it is obviously absurd in it's positions. My kid knows without a shadow of a doubt he is to follow the school rules ...even if he doesn't agree with them.

    The "system" you say I am not backing....is one that has proven to me that it is made up of some that I called mental midgets earlier. The whole purpose of the system was to look out for the best interest of the child when there. School officials going outside the rules themselves...and abusing their authority, does not belong in the system. That should never be protected by policy nor position. That is true for ANY kid...certainly not just mine. If I don't watch out for my kid who will? If the shool gets it right...I add punishment as I deam appropriate. If they get it wrong, I explain why to my kid and admonish him that he did nothing I feel is wrong...but he is still to follow the rules in school.

    You have apparently confused me with one of the parents who idiotically think his kid can do no wrong. Well..you are just plain mistaken.

    I think you must have also gotten confused when you tried to read what I have posted. The counselor was never called names. Different kid...different time. This kid was OVERHEARD by his teacher talking to another student ...referring to her being an "ahole" (exact quote) that particular day. Did he deserve some form of punishment...absolutely. Was he being disrespectful to authority? Probably. He was not addressing the teacher so it could fall either way. I think the punishment from the school should have fit the 'crime'. Instead...they suspended him. Way lack of common sense there. When they suspended him for putting his finger and thumb in the position they said was a violation of their "no weapons" policy.....that was just plain assinine. No way around that much absurdity......I don't care what school you work at you can't logically justify that action.


    I"ll ask again...what school do you work at?


    (btw...I did not mean to offend with the Einstein comment...my apologies)
    Last edited by zap; 09-07-2005, 03:48 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • cleetus0219
    replied
    The answer: Use common sense.

    I picked at you because instead of backing an authority figure who works at the school, you choose to instead 'fight the system' because you feel a moral obligation to do so. Well, kudos to you for taking a stand. But in 10 years when your kid gets locked up because he learned to fight the system instead of just do what he's told, you'll be singing a different tune. It appears that you'll be one of those parents that comes in at 3am exclaiming that the "cops are wrong," "my kid shouldn't have been locked up," "there's no way my kid did what you're telling me," and my personal favorite, "I'll have your badge."

    My other post isn't completely directed at you, portions are directed at "you" in general- meaning that it is directed at other parents who cover their kids, right or wrong.

    If you want to change things, get yourself to a PTA or school board meeting, cause a stink, and demand change. But until then, you need to show your kid that you're not on his side when he does things that are not acceptable at the school, which includes calling the counselor names.

    Signed, Einstein

    Leave a comment:


  • zap
    replied
    Originally posted by cleetus0219
    Zap-
    I DID read your posts, that's why I decided to reply. You missed the point however, as you continue to call an authority figure a 'mental midget.'
    LOL you have got to be kidding me! What school do you work at??


    I am an adult...talking to what I assume are adults. I do not...nor would I...suggest that is appropriate for a child to use to an authority figure. I would not use that term in the presence of my child. I got the point just fine...however you did not.

    These particular school officials EARNED that title in my dealings with them. I do not use that term in general.


    Originally posted by cleetus0219
    Don't you realize that these 'mental midgets' have no choice but to follow what rules the school admin sets for them?
    OH...the OTHER mental midget...the mental midget in charge...I see...that makes it all ok. Lets just continue to pass the buck.


    Originally posted by cleetus0219
    Could you imagine that your kid came home and said- 'My mental midget counselor is making me write a 5 page report on why I was a punk. I now have no time to do my other homework, study for my wood shop test, nor play Halo tonight. Dad, PLEASE complain and tell them that they are wrong for making me do that!'
    Yes, I can imagine. (While my child knows better than even THINK about trying that stunt...I will humor you.) It starts with a stern toungue lashing for disrespecting the authority. (I will find out the particulars...and make my OWN decision on the particular school official's abilities or lack there of). Then, I will strongly suggest that he gets started because not playing Halo is the LEAST of his worries if he does not get the report AND homework done. Period.



    Originally posted by cleetus0219
    And what will parents do?
    Parents in general? Or just me? After all...you claim I am the problem. I just told you what I would do...so I will assume that you do not refer to me for this question.



    Originally posted by cleetus0219
    They will fly of the deep end, contact the school board, and demand the resignation of the 'mental midget' that ordered such an atrocious act. And the ammunition - that the paper will take away from study time- will be sufficient to have the counselor reprimanded.
    Yup...some will. And those are likely to be just like the ones that I witnessed being abused and humiliated at the hands of school officials as students.

    That does NOT however let them off the responsibility to do what is right for their kid and teach them respect for authority even if they disagree at times. (excessive circumstances excepted)



    Originally posted by cleetus0219
    Meanwhile, your kid never learns to take responsibility and continues to enjoy wiping out hordes of people on Halo.

    I assume you mean "THEIR" kids...refering to the general "PARENTS" above.
    ....in that scenario...your conclusion would be correct I would say. As I have been saying all along.



    Originally posted by cleetus0219
    While you kid may have 'outsmarted' the numerous school officials that just want to get through their careers without being called into the principal's office every day for using a creative punishment, it's much easier to just impose the suspension and be done with it. After all, the suspension is tried and true, plus it gives the kid a FULL day to play Halo.

    Ok....don't know about the schools you came from...but we called that a D- ....barely above failing.

    Again...a fine example of school "authority" just passing the buck to the kids...to the parents (where often it DOES belong) so they can just slide by doing the least possible and getting the paycheck. Wow...I think you just made my whole point with that one.



    Originally posted by cleetus0219
    Suspensions are the easy way out, I agree,.
    Yup. What I just said


    Originally posted by cleetus0219
    ... your kid should know the rules by 4th or 5th grade, and it is your responsibility as the parent to make sure he does.
    My kid is just going into the 4th grade....and he knows the rules well. If you are talking about the general parent's kids....I agree.

    Originally posted by cleetus0219
    If your kid gets suspended from school, the punishment shouldn't end there. There ought to be some form of punishment from you as well, so perhaps his 'day off' isn't so enjoyable.
    My kid knows that is a fact of life....UNLESS it is for some assinine issue like a thumb and finger=GUN....that's just absurd. He will be getting no punishment from me for doing nothing wrong.

    Now...when he made the innapropriate comment...he spent the day in his room without anything electrical....AND he wrote the teacher an apology.


    ..........Ok...that said...do parents in general follow that rule...I don't think so. Should they...I think they should. Will they? Prolly not.

    Looks like the out of control school officials are getting what they gave and don't like it. On the other hand, the students and parents who were former students are going overboard.

    What's the answer Einstein?

    Leave a comment:


  • Spee-Dee
    replied
    What's so creative about making a student write an essay?

    Leave a comment:


  • cleetus0219
    replied
    Zap-
    I DID read your posts, that's why I decided to reply. You missed the point however, as you continue to call an authority figure a 'mental midget.'

    Don't you realize that these 'mental midgets' have no choice but to follow what rules the school admin sets for them? Could you imagine that your kid came home and said- 'My mental midget counselor is making me write a 5 page report on why I was a punk. I now have no time to do my other homework, study for my wood shop test, nor play Halo tonight. Dad, PLEASE complain and tell them that they are wrong for making me do that!'

    And what will parents do? They will fly of the deep end, contact the school board, and demand the resignation of the 'mental midget' that ordered such an atrocious act. And the ammunition - that the paper will take away from study time- will be sufficient to have the counselor reprimanded. Meanwhile, your kid never learns to take responsibility and continues to enjoy wiping out hordes of people on Halo.

    While you kid may have 'outsmarted' the numerous school officials that just want to get through their careers without being called into the principal's office every day for using a creative punishment, it's much easier to just impose the suspension and be done with it. After all, the suspension is tried and true, plus it gives the kid a FULL day to play Halo.

    Suspensions are the easy way out, I agree, but your kid should know the rules by 4th or 5th grade, and it is your responsibility as the parent to make sure he does. If your kid gets suspended from school, the punishment shouldn't end there. There ought to be some form of punishment from you as well, so perhaps his 'day off' isn't so enjoyable.

    Leave a comment:


  • Spee-Dee
    replied
    Originally posted by zap

    I agree with your position overall. However, I will NOT allow a mental midget school official to discipline my kid BEYOND academic measures. I want them to assign reports...written apologies etc, but I'll handle the physical stuff personally. Believe me....my kid is not an angel...but he is much more respectful of authority than most kids I deal with. (that's a lot of kids btw)


    When school officials have one answer to every problem....suspension....it does not take a kid genius to figure out that if you want out of school today, just do any small thing and they will send you home. .

    You're absolutely right. When I was in grade five I got into a fight with some guy while we were playing soccer during recess. (It was kind of an unfair fight though; he was a lot smaller than me.) I ended up getting suspended for half of the day while the other guy got suspended for the whole day. I ended up finding out that I enjoyed getting suspended. No annoying teacher telling me what to do. I got more work done during my suspension than I did in class. Two days later I got into another fight playing soccer with another guy. I didn't get suspended this time. Instead I was forced to apologize in front of the entire class. That wasn't as much fun so I didn't get into any more fights in elementary school.

    Leave a comment:


  • zap
    replied
    Originally posted by cleetus0219
    Not for nothing, but you sound like part of the problem. Allowing your kids to talk back and disrespect an authority figure is a sure path to life long problems.

    I doubt your kid can out-think his counselor, and you shouldn't promote that kind of attitude.

    Think for a moment how all authority figures have their hands tied now. We can not express how we feel about something, nor can we act to take appropriate measures to change behavior problems. I'd love to take some of these punks I deal with behind a building and beat the snot out of them for their disrespectful attitude, or at least be able to scare them into submission and force them to learn respect. Of course, that is not possible.

    It all begins with bad parenting. Parents that stick up for their kids when they shoot off their mouths, pop the finger to authority figures, and choose to laugh at those that tell them what to do, are a major portion of our problems.

    When your kid needs a smack in the mouth, he should get it. When he needs to be grounded, he needs to STAY grounded. When punishment is dealt, it needs to be swift and appropriate.

    Quit sticking up for your kid. Take the role of a parent, and not one of his punk friends.
    You Sir...must not have read the rest of that post...or the numerous ones prior to it.

    I agree with your position overall. However, I will NOT allow a mental midget school official to discipline my kid BEYOND academic measures. I want them to assign reports...written apologies etc, but I'll handle the physical stuff personally. Believe me....my kid is not an angel...but he is much more respectful of authority than most kids I deal with. (that's a lot of kids btw)

    Had you not taken my quote out of context...you would realize that I have a MAJOR ISSUE with kids and parents running the school with threats of violence and legal action. That is just wrong.

    On the other hand....had you read the entirety of my posts on the subject, you would also know that I have dealt with mental midgets locally who have the opportunity to affect my kid. When school officials have one answer to every problem....suspension....it does not take a kid genius to figure out that if you want out of school today, just do any small thing and they will send you home. Bad teachers and school officials STARTED the ball of disrespect rolling in the schools. I have witnessed it as both a student and a parent. I have no leniencey for my kid when he knowingly breaks the rules....he knows he is to follow the rules, then talk to me if he has a problem with them.

    I do however absolutely consider it assinine that a kid is suspended for making his thumb and finger into a 'gun'. Not just my kid either. I told my kid they have no clue and their action was indeed stupid...HOWEVER...he was to FOLLOW the school ruls...even the stupid ones while he was there. Perod.

    I Sir, am not the problem that you suggest. I am, however, the ****ed off parent that is sick and tired of ignorant school officials passing the blame when it is not warranted.

    I fully understand that they have a tought job...I would not want their job. But, the argument is clear and very convincing that in the local schools it is the school officials that caused much of the agrivation that the more ignorant parents pass on inappropriately to their kids. An example would be "If you touch my kid I'll _____" Those parents are responsible for their kids behavior. However, it IS the school officials' jobs to not loose kids at the 3rd and 4th grade levels by just suspending them for any perceived offense.

    Leave a comment:


  • cleetus0219
    replied
    Originally posted by zap
    . Imagine KNOWING you can think circles around your school officials? If you don't want to go do school today.

    Not for nothing, but you sound like part of the problem. Allowing your kids to talk back and disrespect an authority figure is a sure path to life long problems.

    I doubt your kid can out-think his counselor, and you shouldn't promote that kind of attitude.

    Think for a moment how all authority figures have their hands tied now. We can not express how we feel about something, nor can we act to take appropriate measures to change behavior problems. I'd love to take some of these punks I deal with behind a building and beat the snot out of them for their disrespectful attitude, or at least be able to scare them into submission and force them to learn respect. Of course, that is not possible.

    It all begins with bad parenting. Parents that stick up for their kids when they shoot off their mouths, pop the finger to authority figures, and choose to laugh at those that tell them what to do, are a major portion of our problems.

    When your kid needs a smack in the mouth, he should get it. When he needs to be grounded, he needs to STAY grounded. When punishment is dealt, it needs to be swift and appropriate.

    Quit sticking up for your kid. Take the role of a parent, and not one of his punk friends.

    Leave a comment:


  • Bklngirl
    replied
    I teach a course in the spring called persuasion.In the Text there is a whole chapter on cursing,which essentially says that you are not persuasive when you use dirty words.Whenever I used a dirty word in front of my nother(as an adult)She'd say "For that you went to college?"In other words,she felt I should use more intelligent words.My kids know curse words are unacceptable in my classroom.I have no problems with that.

    Leave a comment:


  • Bklngirl
    replied
    As a teaher in college I don't really get real disapline problems.But,if a kid is fresh I uaually say"I don't make enough money to take abuse",and they usually back off.I have friends who teach who were hit by students.One is on permanent disability.She was smashed in the head by a high school student with a textbook,and has a headace for life.My brother was pushed down a flight of stairs by a student,a friend (who has arthritis)was pushed down by a student.Also,my brother was once doing lunchroom duty,and a female teacher called him to help her,a student(problem kid,expelled numerous times)was beating up another kid.My brother pulled him off.The parents of the bad kid called the cops on my brother for touching their kid,and tried to have him arrested.His principal came to his defense.

    Leave a comment:


  • zap
    replied
    Originally posted by Straight Up
    Do I laugh at the absurdity or cry at whats becoming of our world.


    Good point.

    Leave a comment:


  • zap
    replied
    Originally posted by Woodles
    I was actually having a conversation about this subject with someone while I was in Calgary over the weekend. He posed the question "what do you think would happen if a teacher pulled a paddle on a student today?" Do you honestly think some student is going to let you take a swing at them with an object? The younger ones maybe our of just being scared. Some of the older ones are more than likely going to either pull a gun or a knife on the teacher or beat the crap out of him/her. Today's youth are not the same youth back in the olden days of 1965 and prior. They're not just going to take crap from teachers.

    .....you forgot to mention that they will not either accept responsibility for their own actions....nor direction from ANY authority figure.

    ...sad to say..you are absolutely correct.

    Leave a comment:

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