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9mm or 40cal?

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  • #16
    Imho:

    In my honest opinion I would go with .40 although a lot of people I know would say the same about the 9mm.
    - He took an aggressive stance with clenched fists. I then issued a short burst of my chemical agent.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by ipscman
      My two cents:

      1. Personal:
      a) Owned over 20 pistols/18 calibers, shot over 40,000 .40S&W show very comfortable with the caliber
      b) Tendonitis in both elbows produces less pain with 9mm than my .357 Sig, .40 S&W, .44 Mag, .45 ACP, and 10mm. I practice more when it hurts less.

      2. Power:
      a) More cops were killed feloniously over the past 10 years, according to the FBI studies, by 9mm than any other caliber. In fact, more were killed by 9mm than .357 Mag, .40 S&W and .45acp combined. Point is, 9mm does kill, even the good guys.
      b) The One Stop Shot studies by Marshall and Sanow indicate the difference in effectiveness between 9,40 and 45 is less than 5% with center of mass hits.

      3. Placement:
      a) Police make their hits less than 25% of time nationwide. I suggest that lack of practice and recoil control are factors. Bigger is not always better.
      b) The military's standard issue was .45 caliber for 50 years. They moved to the 9mm because their studies showed the average shooter gets better hits with the 9mm.

      4. Practice:
      a) Cost of 9mm is under $3 a box (I reload) and as much as half of what the other calibers can cost. More practice equals better skills and ability to hit what I aim at.
      b) Worldwide (if you travel) the 9mm dominates in handguns (both civilian and law enforcement use) and is available most anywhere, whereas the .40 is pretty much an American caliber that is not readily available in any other continent...yet.

      So, no problems with anyone who chooses other calibers but there are genuine reasons for choosing the 9mm.
      Amen. Any weapon is only as effective as who is carrying it. And I don't believe a weapon that holds more shots is really the better weapon. In an average firefight, only two, maybe 3 shots are usually fired. You're talking to a guy who got his start back in the days of the six gun, with dump pouches to reload it with! I soon was able to obtain speedlaoders, and with a lot of practice, to include reloading techniques, to this day I believe I could still give someone armed with a semi auto a run for their money with my wheelgun. And there is no doubt in my mind as to what one shot from a .357 Magnum can do!

      Only thing I've ever shot with a 9mm in the line of duty was a skunk. I was told of a deer that had to be destroyed, and the 9mm just didn't cut it, and we're talking head shots.
      Never have had the opportunity to try a .40, but from what I have read about them, sounds better than the 9mm for LE use.

      But one tends to forget one thing about LE weaponry. I was in a situation once where the possibility of confrontation was high(gang bangers). When I went into that situation, that cute little pistol stayed in my cute little holster, and the 870 Remington came out! All I had to do was loudly rack in a shell, and that brought that situation to a sudden stop!
      Never make a drummer mad- we beat things for a living!

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      • #18
        Shot Placement IS everything

        I too shot a deer one time to put it out of its misery. Used a 10mm carry gun. Took 4 shots to put it down! It was getting real dark, it was running away in a variety of directions with a broken hip. My shots were poorly placed.

        I shot an elk twice in the head with a shotgun slug. It took the second slug to actually kill the elk. First shot was off an inch. Poor placement.

        I have a friend who routinely kills deer with a .22. He places his shots accurately.

        You don't win gunfights with caliber but with proper shot placement. Shoot the biggest gun you can in any given situation, but shoot the one you can control the best for proper shot placement. For some that is a 9. For others a 10mm, a .44 Mag, ...
        Last edited by ipscman; 09-14-2005, 12:27 PM. Reason: emphasis
        NRA Certified Instructor
        Certified Range Officer
        A-Class IPSC Shooter
        Shoot 20,000 rds annually
        Reserve Officer

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        • #19
          Went through plenty of guns from 9mm, .357SIG, found the Glock 22C .40 perfect for me.

          This is my Glock. There are many like, but this one is mine. R.Lee Ermey
          The nine most terrifying words in the English language are, "I'm from the government and I'm here to help."
          Ronald Reagan

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          • #20
            Shot placement IS everything. The guy with bad shot placement and a 30 round magazine will eventually place 1 to 2 rounds on target. The idea is to place rounds on the target before the target's spastic shooting hits you.
            N. A. Corbier
            Moderator, SecurityInfoWatch Forums
            Visiting Commando Leader

            If you work in private security, feel free to register on Officer.com's sister site for security, forums.securityinfowatch.com

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            • #21
              It has been said that a hand gun (no matter the caliber) is what you use while trying to get to your shotgun/rifle. Notwithstanding that, I felt confident with the 46 rounds of 9mm I carried.

              For an interesting read, I would highly recommend going to www.tacticalforums.com. Once there, go to the Terminal Effects Forum. Upon scrolling down, you should find a thread entitled something like, "LE Gel testing April 2005." ***Edit**You will have to go to the top and change the days to the past 75 days, it's an older thread*****

              Dr. Gary Roberts, a Navy Lt. Commander is a nationally recognized ballistics expert who has done extensive testing for both the US military and LE around the country. In this thread, he reports tests results of various brands of various calibers of ammo. He does not make "kickbacks" for his recommendations. He does it to determine what ammo will best serve/protect the military and the men/women in le.

              I don't understand a lot of the technical info on this site, as they have Medical docs, engineers, physicists, among some that contribute, but I do find what I understand to be informative.
              Last edited by tan/grn; 09-13-2005, 03:30 AM.

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              • #22
                Originally posted by nacorbier
                Shot placement IS everything. The guy with bad shot placement and a 30 round magazine will eventually place 1 to 2 rounds on target. The idea is to place rounds on the target before the target's spastic shooting hits you.
                My sentiments exactly. This day and age, with these high capacity weapons, too many think it is OK to "spray and pray." That was never the intention. Whether your weapon holds 6 shots or 16, MAKE EVERY SHOT COUNT!!
                Never make a drummer mad- we beat things for a living!

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                • #23
                  Do you feel your side arm is your primary weapon? With the avaliablity of assualt rifles, shotguns, and machine guns why not use one of these weapons as your primary weapon. If it come to using your pistol, I feel more rounds in the magazine is better, because you are probably going to be scared and taking less than well aimed shots.

                  Stay Safe!!!

                  NCHawk56

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                  • #24
                    Just finished a class with a well known firearms expert & trainer. His take on all this is simply a pistol is what you use until the rifle can be brought out,just like someone said earlier. My Dept. issues 40cal. Glocks & allows 45ACP if the off. wants to buy one, but it has to be a Glock. My Dept's. & this instructors take on this was that the Glock has a more consistent trigger-pull, no safetys to manipulate & with a minimum of operator servicable parts makes it easier to train with. Now, many people, including myself are/were skeptical of the Glocks but in the real world bullet placement is still important, most cops don't practice as often as they should & whatever agency you work for has their weapons for only one reason--that company offere it CHEAPER than anyone else, so the "bean counters " bought it .Perhaps the Glocks aren't so badafter all

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                    • #25
                      Thanks everyone for their input.
                      "In these modern times, many men are wounded for not having weapons or knowledge of their use."
                      -Achille Marozzo, 1536

                      Ne Obliviscaris - Do Not Forget

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by tan/grn
                        It has been said that a hand gun (no matter the caliber) is what you use while trying to get to your shotgun/rifle. Notwithstanding that, I felt confident with the 46 rounds of 9mm I carried.

                        For an interesting read, I would highly recommend going to www.tacticalforums.com. Once there, go to the Terminal Effects Forum. Upon scrolling down, you should find a thread entitled something like, "LE Gel testing April 2005." ***Edit**You will have to go to the top and change the days to the past 75 days, it's an older thread*****

                        Dr. Gary Roberts, a Navy Lt. Commander is a nationally recognized ballistics expert who has done extensive testing for both the US military and LE around the country. In this thread, he reports tests results of various brands of various calibers of ammo. He does not make "kickbacks" for his recommendations. He does it to determine what ammo will best serve/protect the military and the men/women in le.

                        I don't understand a lot of the technical info on this site, as they have Medical docs, engineers, physicists, among some that contribute, but I do find what I understand to be informative.
                        Thanks tan/grn for the info on the tactical forums website.
                        "Ever watchful o'er me and mine; Ever gratful for the Thin Blue Line..."

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          I can't wait for CBP to transition to the HK .40 CAL. Compact but yet powerful. The G17 is a nice gun but is too heavy.
                          I believe forgiveness is Gods function; my job is to simply arrange the meeting.

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                          • #28
                            HK Compact

                            I have about 25 pistols and the HK compact is one of my favorites. Just feels solid and with the single action trigger option is functions much like a cocked and locked 1911. Higher bore from the grip so a little more muzzle flip but still a very tight and enjoyable handgun. Fits in my hand like a glove.
                            NRA Certified Instructor
                            Certified Range Officer
                            A-Class IPSC Shooter
                            Shoot 20,000 rds annually
                            Reserve Officer

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                            • #29
                              We are issued the Sig .357 semi auto. Alot of guys prefer Glocks, but the Sig has proven to be a very nasty weapon. When we have had to employ it, the vast majority have been one shot stops.

                              Overall I'm much happier with this weapon than the old 9 mm and 45 Sigs I have carried in the past.
                              Government exists to protect us from each other. Where government has gone beyond its limits is in deciding to protect us from ourselves.

                              Ronald Reagan

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                              • #30
                                My personal choice is 45 ACP followed by the .357 Sig. But to answer you question I would choose 40 S&W.

                                In standard police calibers, there is not a one shot stopping round. Therefore, since it is blood loss that usually causes the inability to continue the behavior (aside from CNS, central nervous system, disrutption) I submit:

                                Bullet placement is always key

                                A big hole is better than a litte hole.

                                More holes are better than one hole.

                                I carry a Glock 21.

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