9mm or 40cal?

[Bluntforcetraum]

What do you prefer?

[toby101]

40cal, even more anything less then that if you carry it for LEO purpose you will be out gunned by the suspect. (At least in some areas.)

[zap]

....you will probably get this thread moved...but here goes.

I just finished reading an article on the myth of one shot stops. In their research they found no noticable effect on the gun or ammo the officer was using. But, even 6 shots with a 45 might not drop a BG.

That said...I was not comfortable with a 9mm for duty carry so switched to a 40 for the academy. I can shoot it well...and am more confident in it's ability to penetrate and bleed out a BG quicker than the 9mm.

My perception is all that is important. If I feel comfortable that I can put the rounds on target fast enough...I know I can win. Period.

[Bluntforcetraum]

I was planning on picking up one of the Springfield XDs and I wasn't completely sure what cal. to get it in. It will be my first pistol. I plan to use it for carry and put some range time on it. It comes in 4 different cal. 9mm, 357sig, 40cal, and .45GAP. I havn't heard too much about the .45GAP but I do like .45ACP nice stopping power. 357sig was pretty expensive to feed. Ive never shot a 9mm or 40cal.
Has anyone shot a .45GAP?
Im pretty sure its a .45ACP shortened to the length of a 9mm. I don't know if it would be a good choice based on ammo availability.
Thanks

[10X Shooter]

Just a little info from www.firearmstactical.com that you might find useful.

357 SIG -- A Solution in Search of a Problem?

Several readers have contacted us to ask for our opinion of the .357 SIG cartridge, and its effectiveness for personal defense use, particularly when loaded with a 125-grain JHP bullet. Our usual response is that it demonstrates adequate performance, meaning that the bullets are capable of penetrating deeply enough to potentially inflict an effective wound. But it doesn't seem to perform any better than current 9mm, .40 S&W or .45 ACP bullets in terms of penetration and expansion.

We feel .357 SIG appeals to people who are preoccupied with velocity and kinetic energy more than with producing effective wound trauma.

The velocity of the .357 SIG 125-grain JHP bullet doesn't appear to make it superior in penetrating automotive sheet metal, windshield glass or other hard barrier materials than existing 9mm, .40 S&W and .45 ACP JHP bullets. In fact, .357 SIG demonstrates virtually identical performance characteristics as the other cartridges when fired through hard barrier materials.

To ensure JHP bullets wouldn't over-expand and fragment when propelled at .357 SIG velocities, most bullet manufacturers couldn't simply take existing 9mm 124-grain JHP bullets, install them in .357 SIG cases and pronounce the result as ".357 SIG 125-grain JHP," because this would be a step backwards.

Existing 9mm 124-grain bullets, designed for nominal 9mm velocities, would over-expand, fragment and under-penetrate. Essentially, they'd be re-inventing the 9mm 115-grain JHP +P+ cartridge. Therefore, the ammo companies had to design sturdier JHP bullets specifically for the .357 SIG; ones that wouldn't over-expand and fragment in bare gelatin.

They succeeded in designing such bullets, but the bullets appear to be so resistant to over-expansion that they under-expand when passing through clothing. As a result, in shootings involving clothed people (the most common scenario), the .357 SIG 125-grain JHP bullet will more than likely over-penetrate and exit the body.

In a strict wound ballistics sense, over-penetration is better than under-penetration because the bullet will at least have the potential to intersect and bore through vital cardiovascular structures. But over-penetration is also a waste of wounding potential.

In comparison, many 9mm 147-grain subsonic JHP bullets demonstrate better penetration and expansion performance than .357 SIG 125-grain JHPs.

Perhaps in the future the ammo companies will be able to develop better 125-grain bullets for the .357 SIG. But until this happens we feel .357 SIG is a solution to a non-problem.

Feel the need for speed? You'd be better armed with a standard velocity (1100-1150 fps) .40 S&W 165-grain JHP.

[00svtlightning]

I own a glock 23 40 cal...love that gun, its not pretty but it goes bang when the trigger is pulled. The last time I went and got rounds for my 40 it was $14 for a 100 pack of wichester white box. I think the 9mm were $10. I spose it's a personal preference thing but I would probably not go any lighter than a 40 cal...but thats me...haven't heard much about the 45 GAP. I think its a shorter 45 ACP, I could be wrong. I would probably wait until the round has been on the market for a while before I bought one, just to make sure that you don't buy the gun and then have the round be obsolete soon after...again personal preference.

[gotthblues]

I was planning on picking up one of the Springfield XDs and I wasn't completely sure what cal. to get it in. It will be my first pistol. I plan to use it for carry and put some range time on it. It comes in 4 different cal. 9mm, 357sig, 40cal, and .45GAP. I havn't heard too much about the .45GAP but I do like .45ACP nice stopping power. 357sig was pretty expensive to feed. Ive never shot a 9mm or 40cal.
Has anyone shot a .45GAP?
Im pretty sure its a .45ACP shortened to the length of a 9mm. I don't know if it would be a good choice based on ammo availability.
Thanks

okay, first- dont ever use the terms "stopping power or knock down power" most if not all firearms inst. will eat your pie hole out for it. what matters is the size of the hole that you make in someones chest, the bigger the hole, the faster they bleed out. with that being said, i dont recommend the 45 cal unless you have big hands, i have sissy hands and cant handle the 45, also the 45 offers less rounds to carry in your magazines, 7 or 8 with the 45 up to 15 or 16 with the 40 cal.
as far as velocities, well im not that up on all that, but the 9mm and 357 are faster out of the muzzel, but i ve always heard that the 9mm has a hard time breaking through a lot of different materials/items/what not.

[Bluntforcetraum]

What about Para Ordnance. They have a .45acp Tac-four model that is able to be carried. 4.25 barrel with a cap of 13+1. It looks like a decent one. Anyone shoot a para ord? Does it compare?

[Evtech]

Our PD just went to H&K .45s from S&Ws. We used to have 9mm some years ago.

[Da Po-po]

I wouldn't carry a 9mm for a duty weapon unless it was required. The .40 S&W is a far better round, but if I had my choice, I'd go with the .45 ACP.

[HSUCowboy98]

I Own an Sprindfield XD in .40, and love it. 9mm is alot cheaper to shoot, but I prefer the feel of the .40, and while the .45 would be a great choice; I like the fact that I can carry 13+1 in a compact and easily concealed handgun. Of course it doesnt matter what you shoot if you can't hit with it, so basically choose whatever you can confidently put on target when it counts. A huge hole in air stops no one.

[ETA-3]

Our department carries .40 Sigs. I shot a 9mm in the service once and didn't much care for it.

[USCGjoker]

I own a Berretta 9mm which I bought due to the fact its what we carry in at my Coast Guard Police Department, and currently though out the Coast Guard, and I just bought the Glock 36 .45acp last year. The Coast Guard is switching to a Sig P229 .40 cal with in the next couple of months. I rented the P229 when I was home last year and I like the accuracy, and I am looking foward to using the modified trigger. From what I have been told the .45 GAP has a little more punch to it than the ACP. But with all the guns I have shot, I prefer my little ol Glock.

[ipscman]

Reasons for using 9mm

My two cents:

1. Personal:
a) Owned over 20 pistols/18 calibers, shot over 40,000 .40S&W show very comfortable with the caliber
b) Tendonitis in both elbows produces less pain with 9mm than my .357 Sig, .40 S&W, .44 Mag, .45 ACP, and 10mm. I practice more when it hurts less.

2. Power:
a) More cops were killed feloniously over the past 10 years, according to the FBI studies, by 9mm than any other caliber. In fact, more were killed by 9mm than .357 Mag, .40 S&W and .45acp combined. Point is, 9mm does kill, even the good guys.
b) The One Stop Shot studies by Marshall and Sanow indicate the difference in effectiveness between 9,40 and 45 is less than 5% with center of mass hits.

3. Placement:
a) Police make their hits less than 25% of time nationwide. I suggest that lack of practice and recoil control are factors. Bigger is not always better.
b) The military's standard issue was .45 caliber for 50 years. They moved to the 9mm because their studies showed the average shooter gets better hits with the 9mm.

4. Practice:
a) Cost of 9mm is under $3 a box (I reload) and as much as half of what the other calibers can cost. More practice equals better skills and ability to hit what I aim at.
b) Worldwide (if you travel) the 9mm dominates in handguns (both civilian and law enforcement use) and is available most anywhere, whereas the .40 is pretty much an American caliber that is not readily available in any other continent...yet.

So, no problems with anyone who chooses other calibers but there are genuine reasons for choosing the 9mm.

[perks]

Info about the 45gap...
They took the 45acp and changed it to fit on as 9mm frame for smaller handed people that still wanted the .45. I have held the .45gap at a local retail store, comparing the glock 21 & glock 37(the gap), haven't shot the 37 but I have shot the 21. I had more control over the gap than the acp, but they also change the ammo to fit the 9mm frame. I haven't any kind of video promotion clips of the gap or clips of people shooting it either, so I have no clue what the recoil is. I preferr the 40 over the 9, shot both and just like the 40 over the 9.