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  • Another Illegal Immigration Thread

    The last few threads on this topic received quite a few responses and unfortunately were shut down due to comments that some found objectionable.

    I figure that I'll try to start up the discussion again and hopefully discuss some of the many issues associated with this problem ie. strain on our infrastructure, depressed wages, urban sprawl, security risks, public health risks, crime etc.

    I realize this is an emotional subject for some but lets try to keep it civil.

    I guess I'll start by saying that this problem is not exclusive to Latinos. In my experience I have dealt with many varieties of Asians, Europeans, Africans and Middle Easterners. Although the bulk of my dealings have been with Central and South Americans I want to make it clear that they are not the only culprits.
    The only thing we have to fear is change itself.

  • #2
    http://www.immigrationshumancost.org...mevictims.html

    Illegals from south of the border are chalking up their fair share of victims as well as sucking up our tax dollars.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Stan Switek
      http://www.immigrationshumancost.org...mevictims.html

      Illegals from south of the border are chalking up their fair share of victims as well as sucking up our tax dollars.
      True enough. I would recommend reading Michelle Malkin's book Invasion . It has a similar list of U.S. victims of illegals.

      As far as tax dollars, it is true that the huddled masses are killing the infrastructures of alot of places ie. hospitals, schools, public services. But what about other ethnic groups such as Eurasians and certain African groups that cost us billions each year by defrauding public and private entities.

      Don't get me wrong Stan, I am not defending any one group over another. I'm trying to make people aware that there are many facets to the problem other than the obvious. Believe me, I'm all to aware of what is coming from south of the border.
      The only thing we have to fear is change itself.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Migraman
        True enough. I would recommend reading Michelle Malkin's book Invasion . It has a similar list of U.S. victims of illegals.

        As far as tax dollars, it is true that the huddled masses are killing the infrastructures of alot of places ie. hospitals, schools, public services. But what about other ethnic groups such as Eurasians and certain African groups that cost us billions each year by defrauding public and private entities.

        Don't get me wrong Stan, I am not defending any one group over another. I'm trying to make people aware that there are many facets to the problem other than the obvious. Believe me, I'm all to aware of what is coming from south of the border.
        I cant find that book anywhere, ive tried both of the Borders and the Barnes and Noble by me and I cant find it.

        Another good one is Civil War II: The Coming Breakup of America; its kinda radical but its a good read.

        Comment


        • #5
          Yea, but I bet they have plenty of anything by Michael Moore
          "Respect for religion must be reestablished. Public debt should be reduced. The arrogance of public officials must be curtailed. Assistance to foreign lands must be stopped or we shall bankrupt ourselves. The people should be forced to work and not depend on government for subsistence." - Cicero, 60 B.C.

          For California police academy notes go to http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CABasicPolice/

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by ChrisF202
            I cant find that book anywhere, ive tried both of the Borders and the Barnes and Noble by me and I cant find it.

            Another good one is Civil War II: The Coming Breakup of America; its kinda radical but its a good read.


            Try www.alibris.com
            All human actions have one or more of these seven causes: chance, nature, compulsions, habit, reason, passion and desire.

            Comment


            • #7
              Border emergency declared in New Mexico

              Border emergency declared in New Mexico
              Governor says area 'devastated' by human and drug smuggling

              Saturday, August 13, 2005; Posted: 2:07 a.m. EDT (06:07 GMT)

              (CNN) -- New Mexico Gov. Bill Richardson declared a state of emergency Friday in four counties along the Mexican border that he said have been "devastated" by crimes such as the smuggling of drugs and illegal immigrants.

              The declaration said the region "has been devastated by the ravages and terror of human smuggling, drug smuggling, kidnapping, murder, destruction of property and the death of livestock. ...

              "[It] is in an extreme state of disrepair and is inadequately funded or safeguarded to protect the lives and property of New Mexican citizens."

              New Mexico shares 180 miles of border with the Mexican state of Chihuahua.

              "The situation is out of hand," Richardson said Friday night on CNN, noting that one 54-mile stretch is particularly bad.

              The Mexican government issued a statement in which it acknowledged the problems along the border, but said it continues to make consistent efforts to target them along with U.S. authorities.

              It said some of Richardson's views stem from "generalizations that do not correspond to the spirit of cooperation and understanding that are required for dealing with problems of common concern along the border."

              Richardson's declaration makes $750,000 in state emergency funds available to Dona Ana, Luna, Grant and Hidalgo counties.

              Richardson pledged an additional $1 million in assistance for the area, his office said in a news release.

              He said on CNN that the funds will be used to hire additional law enforcement personnel and pay officers overtime.

              In announcing the state of emergency, Richardson -- a Democrat who served in President Clinton's Cabinet -- criticized the "total inaction and lack of resources from the federal government and Congress" in helping protect his state's residents along the border.

              "There's very little response from the Border Patrol," he said on CNN. "They're doing a good job, but they don't have the resources."

              The governor announced the move after a helicopter and ground tour of the border near Columbus, New Mexico, the statement said.

              He said on CNN that he "saw the trails where these illegal routes take place" as well as fenced areas along the border where the fence is "literally nonexistent."

              According to Richardson's statement announcing the declaration, "Recent developments have convinced me this action is necessary -- including violence directed at law enforcement, damage to property and livestock, increased evidence of drug smuggling, and an increase in the number of undocumented immigrants."

              He called on Mexico to "bulldoze the abandoned town of Las Chepas, which is directly over the border from Columbus."

              The statement went on to say that "Las Chepas is a notorious staging and resting area for those who smuggle drugs and immigrants into the United States."

              Some of the pledged funds will be used to create a field office for the New Mexico Office of Homeland Security to focus specifically on the border.

              There will also be new efforts to protect livestock in the area near Columbus, "along a favorite path for illegal immigration where a number of livestock have been stolen and killed," the statement said.

              Richardson said he wanted residents of the four counties "to know my administration is doing everything it can to protect them."

              Alejandro Cano, secretary of industrial development for the Mexican state of Chihuahua -- which borders New Mexico -- pledged to support Richardson's efforts, the statement said.

              Richardson told CNN he met with Mexican governors several weeks ago on border security.

              "My people on my side asked me to take this step, and I've done so reluctantly," Richardson told CNN. "As governor, I have to protect the people I represent."

              He noted he is the nation's only Hispanic governor, and "we're a state that's been very good to legal migrants. ... This action, I believe, had to be taken."

              The Mexican Foreign Ministry sent Richardson a letter Friday saying it has requested that Mexican consuls in Albuquerque and El Paso, Texas, meet "as soon as possible" with New Mexico officials "to promote pertinent action by the authorities of both countries in the framework of existing institutional mechanisms."

              Comment


              • #8
                You ought to enjoy this one Stan.

                http://www.suntimes.com/output/news/...percuts12.html
                The only thing we have to fear is change itself.

                Comment


                • #9
                  I'm a fairly easy going person, but as a legal immigrant to this country, this whole issue of illegal immigration (and all the hand wringing associated with it) ****es me the f**k off.

                  My family did it the right way - filled out the multitude of forms, travelled long distances and visited the multitude of offices, had the never ending physicals and finger prints done, paid all the damn money whenever the government asked for money (and half the time you didn't even know what they needed more money for, but couldn't get in touch with a "real person" by phone to find out - so just paid the money), had all the interviews. And waited - and then waited some more. It took many years.

                  It was an extremely expensive, time consuming and frustrating enterprise (as anyone who has ever had to deal with the INS knows), but we went through it because that was the only way to get it done.

                  Oh wait - it's NOT the only way to get it done. Rather, you can be from a 3rd world country, speak a different language, be poor and disenfranchised, be uneducated and unwilling to go through the legal process, AND be willing to do some of the jobs that (from what those who want to rationalize criminal behavior say) Americans apparently aren't willing to do (and for less money than Americans would accept)..........I guess I should have thought of that before dealing with inefficient bureacracy.

                  Again, ****es me the f**k off.
                  Last edited by krj; 08-13-2005, 08:45 AM.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    KRJ, just out of curiousity where are you originally from? You hit on a point that really doesn't get as much exposure as it should. You mentioned the numerous physicals that you and your family had to undergo as part of the process.

                    Besides the obvious background checks and security screenings that illegals bypass by "jumping the fence", they also are not subjected to health screenings.

                    I don't think it is a coincidence that we are seeing an increase in the occurance of diseases that had all but gone away as well as new ones not indigenous to this country. Hepatitis A,B,& C are on the rise as well as TB. We are seeing an increase in cases of leprosy not to mention that there have been a few cases of dengue fever documented in the past few years.
                    The only thing we have to fear is change itself.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Guys .............
                      The problem is not just large in the US, we also have an ever increasing problem in the UK.

                      http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4733777.stm

                      IMO the problem is that those that want to increase the power of the law to deport these people are being accused of racism etc by a very vocal minority of people.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Migraman
                        KRJ, just out of curiousity where are you originally from?
                        Where I'm originally from is a bit of a tough question to answer, because I've lived in a number of different countries. Related to this topic though, I moved here from Canada.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          *sigh* I almost ingorned this thread but decided what the heck. My amber lager and I decided we should sound off. I live in San Diego, CA. Immigration here is not a problem, it's a nightmare. I suppose I could rattle on about all the different "cures" there are, but my boss put it in perspecctive.

                          My boss is here legally from Mexico and is fiercly proud of being an American Citizen. He was even was dismayed that as a peace officer he could not participate in the jury pool. Anyway, he put it like this. Here is the basic problem. The greatest and richest nation in the world is next door to one of the poorest and most undereducated. Although we (Americans) do not always agree with our neighbors to the north (Canadians) you don't see Canadians coming here in droves. Why? Well fed, and well educated, with an essentially honest goverment. Why leave? My family and friends are here and what few greater opporunities there are in the U.S. aren't worth the expense of leaving my family and friends behind.

                          The Latin American thought is just the opposite. Conditions there are so miserable that they will do anything to get out. Poor, underfed, undereducated, with goverments that are corrupt and inefficiant. There is little or no reason to stay. Guns are illegal, but the police only take them away from those the police aren't scared of or bought off by. The people are so poor that they can't even afford to get out. The average "exit" out is about $2000.00 U.S. For an American, $2000 is still a pile of change, but rather easy to come by if needed. All else fails put it on your credit card. A credit card is almost unheard of by the vast vast majority of Latin Americans.

                          He agrees that illegal immigration to the U.S. is a problem. It is an unfair tax burdon, causes all kinds or problems along the border and is all in all a bad thing. He tells me that if we, Americans, want to put the skids on illigel immigration, stop sending forgien aid to eastern Europe, Africa, southeast and southwest Asia and start pouring it into Latin America and South America. Stop kicking the $hit out of tin horn dictators in the Middle East and start with those in latin america and south america. Worry about our half of the world. Yes, we have agreed to defend Isreal, but until somebody actually attacks them, let them solve their own damn problem. If they need help, let the E.U. deal with it, it's their half of the world.
                          Be alert...the world needs more lerts!

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Great post, Omega4.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Omega brings up some good points. In addition to the countries mentioned we already do send millions of dollars in foreign aid to Latin American countries. The governments and the ruling classes in these countries are the root of the problem. Why should they care about the peasants when its easier to send them north and get rid of the problem?

                              After dealing with these people first hand for the first five and a half years of my career I genuinely feel bad for them. When you talk to them and hear some of the stories it can really tug at the heart strings. In the same position I can't say I wouldn't be doing the same thing. I really don't fault them but I don't see where it is our burden to bear. We are a generous nation but we can realistically only help so many. Its at a point that the presence of these people is a detriment to our society.

                              I can tell you right now how to have a significant effect on the problem and that is to go after the reason that most are coming. Most are coming here to work, enforce existing employer sanctions laws. If it is no longer profitable for employers to utilize illegal labor then the incintive to come here illegaly would be greatly reduced. Of course this would never happen due to various advocacy groups and the hefty political contributions they dole out.
                              The only thing we have to fear is change itself.

                              Comment

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