3" Knife - "No Weapons"

[Trombahonker]

Deleted by original poster.

[Tennsix]

I will not comment on the actions taken by school officials except to say you did violate the policy. If the policy said no knives, then that is the way it is. Suppose the venue had been a courthouse? What do you think would have happened to you then? You would have been arrested. In some states, it is illegal to posses a weapon on school grounds or while attending a school function.

A knife (no matter what size) is a weapon. A three inch knife can kill. If a person were to come at me with that same knife, I would probably exercise deadly force.

I am not qualified to answer your question as it is an issue best addressed by an attorney.

[zap]

With all due respect to Tennsix, and with no intention of contradicting what he has said....there maybe other issues also.

In this state, a pocket knife is a pocket knife....not a weapon. BUT....if you have it in the wrong place, or use it inapproprately, it becomes a deadly weapon. But then again, so does a pencil if you are stupid enough to threaten me with it.

My son was suspended from school when he was 7 years old because he made a play gun with his thumb and index finger ....while playing cops and robbers at recess....GIVE ME A FRIGGIN BREAK! Some of this stuff goes way too far in my opinion. BUT, you must realize...if you play in their sandbox...you are subject to their rules....no matter how stupid they might be.

This issue you have about unlawful restraint does indeed need to go to an attorney in your area to be answered correctly.

[Tennsix]

Ok... What if he dropped it and someone else found it and used it as a weapon?

I think the spirit of the school's policy is to reduce the possiblity of an incident, as much as possible. In this case, I think he was wrong. He was old enough to understand that possessing a pocket knife was wrong.

I do agree that some school districts take it too far. I work Part-time security at an elem school and a teacher through a fit when she discovered was carrying a concealed weapon. She reported it as a violation.

[Trombahonker]

Deleted by original poster.

[Mid_Ohio_Po]

Read above. I understand your views on this, as I carry a 3inch pocketknife on me at almost all times for general tasks, I damn sure would use it as a weapon if I wasn't carrying and needed one. It could be viewed as a weapon, and if the policy says no weapons, then so be it, you're in violation. Sorry to burst your bubble bud, but times have changed. It used to be pretty common to have kids here in the country with a shotgun rack complete with shotgun in the back window of their truck. Not now, things have become much more touchy, like the thumb and forefinger incident (I agree is bs).


Sorry man



p.s. I'm really disappointed that none of my fellow smart***es have jumped in with "This one time at bandcamp" yet..........sorry, couldn't resist.

[ProWriter]

Feel free to disregard the following if you only want officer opinions:

...So I am curious, did that administration actually have the grounds for expelation? I didn't realize a 3" knife is considered a "dangerous weapon" in Iowa (or pretty much anywhere in the US), except schools and some gov't offices. In schools, the handbook does specifically say "no knifes, guns, lighters, etc..", but this only said "weapons". I don't see how they can use a 3" Gerber as premise to expel someone for carrying a dangerous weapon.

The argument you seem to be making might hold a little more water if the HANDBOOK said "weapons" and not "knives." In that case, your position is that your pocket knife isn't necessarily a violation, for the same reason a butter knife probably isn't. In that case, you might have been able to get the $$ you lost from the gig, if you could show that it was a definite opportunity at a specific fee, and not a speculative hope, like if you made the cut, etc. But in this case, the handbook said 'KNIVES" so you're outta luck with that whole line of reasoning.

Also, is it not against some sort of civil right to put someone in a room and absolutely not allow him or her to leave unless you are a LEO? I was not allowed to use a phone, had to ask if I could walk across the hall and go to the restroom, and especially go outside.

Technically, once you're 18, you had every right to just walk out the front gate once they told you they'd expelled you. (The noun is expulsion not expelation.).) Still, there are plenty of specific circumstances that could allow them to restrict your movement for short periods of time, just like retail store security or restaurant managers. Your paperwork with them may also have included consent to various limitations of your general rights subject to their discretion while on their premises, too.

Unless you're leaving out some details or circumstances, it sounds like they overreacted and should have just confiscated it until the end of the program and maybe "counseled" you But the whole thing is totally moot, because the handbook said "knives" which definitely includes pocket knives. Not that I don't sympathize...my keys have been attached to a Swiss Army knife since I was about 20...b4 9/11 I used to leave it clipped to my belt on planes. Times have changed.

[jakflak]

If the school defines your knife as a weapon, it's a weapon. They have every right to enforce the rule.

A 3" knife is a deadly weapon. The 9-11 highjackings were done with box knives (only 1" long blade). If you don't believe me, try to take it on an airplane and see what happens.

As far as them holding you, if they put you in a room and tell you to stay put, you're not 'being held'. If you don't like it, leave. If you don't leave, you're consenting to stay.

[zap]

Ok... What if he dropped it and someone else found it and used it as a weapon?

I think the spirit of the school's policy is to reduce the possiblity of an incident, as much as possible. In this case, I think he was wrong. He was old enough to understand that possessing a pocket knife was wrong.

I do agree that some school districts take it too far. I work Part-time security at an elem school and a teacher through a fit when she discovered was carrying a concealed weapon. She reported it as a violation.

*nod* no argument here.

I agree with the posts everyone else has made. What I might not have said clearly enough is that it is what THEY decide is a weapon. You are in THEIR sandbox...THEY make the rules....and you are subject to them EVEN IF they are as stupid as my kid being suspended for a trivial thing like that.

[Trombahonker]

...the handbook only said "Any student possessing illegal drugs, alcohol, or weapons may be subject to expulsion"...

...In schools, the handbook does specifically say "no knifes, guns, lighters, etc..", but this only said "weapons"...

Not that that really changes it I suppose, though the festivals hand book did not specify "knives", only "weapons".

In hindsight, I realize it really was a bad idea to have taken it. I didn't think the camp was going to be how it was. It was my first time attending anything of the sort and I didn't quite realize the degree of politics surrounding everything. That said, I still don't understand how they can change the law to say a 3" knife is a weapon when, unless wielded as so, it is not, at least in Iowa. I guess it can be argued it is "obvious" that I shouldn't have brought the knife and especially used it. Either way, I was wrong, despite that the book did not specifically say "knife".

Tisk on me.

Aaron N.

[DMS 525]

First of all, that 9-11 incident turned a once complacent, carefree nation into a bunch of sissies afraid of their own shadows. The word of the day is overkill.

I had to go to the county courthouse once; just like going into the airport. You empty the contents of your pockets into a little basket, and walk through a metal detector. Purses and packages go through a X-ray scanner.

Anyhoos, the deputy told me I could not bring this little Trim Trio knife I had on my keychain. A little knife, with a blade about an inch long, with a rounded blunt edge, and couldn't cut through hot butter! Yetr, since it hade an edge, I couldn't bring it in.

I only had so much time on my lunch break, and didn't have time to walk 4 blocks back to my car, so I walked out the door of the courthouse, and gave that thing a throw! Deputy chuckled when I came back in, and I actually found it when I came out later!

What is really a weapon? I could kill you with an ink pen, a rolled up towel or even a sock! Many a gal has used a rattail comb to her defense. The possibilities are endless.

That handbook should have been more specific. What those pompous counsellors should have realized is it's the unseen weapon that is more dangerous.

Lastly, where were you for that camp? Just curious.

[Tennsix]

A knife of any size is a weapon. I don't work for NASA but I think I am right on this one.

If you pull a three inch knife on a cop, you will wish you hadnt taken a knife to a gun fight. It is a weapon plain and simple.

[zap]

A knife of any size is a weapon. I don't work for NASA but I think I am right on this one.

If you pull a three inch knife on a cop, you will wish you hadnt taken a knife to a gun fight. It is a weapon plain and simple.

You could very well get yourself shot for coming at an officer in the perceived threatening manner with a PENCIL.

[Straight Up]

First of all, that 9-11 incident turned a once complacent, carefree nation into a bunch of sissies afraid of their own shadows. The word of the day is overkill. .

This part I agree with. Why are we even having this conversation????

I guess thats a whole other thread

Continue Please

[SWH]

You screwed up. A box cutter, as harmless as it is, caused the WTC to come crashing down, so never take 'a harmless little pocket knife' as anything but a weapon.