Maryland police chief

[Mike Tx]

This guy did something that has really set lots of peoples blood boiling, including mine. He has asked for private citizens to report to the police anyone they know of who owns certain types of rifles. Guilt by association.

There is also speculation. not from me, that this is some kind of ploy by "someone" to help certain politicians get elected, and bring about even more gun control.

Now, I realize many politicians, including extremist groups wanting get certain politicians elected, are sicko pieces of crap, but I don't really think they would do this, would they? I hope not.

And I sure hope they catch these pukes soon, which reports are saying are two hispanic looking men. If I were hispanic, I'd sure get tired of being the PC race target because people are afraid to say ME looking men.

[CinaC]

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that this is some kind of ploy by "someone" to help certain politicians get

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That's ridiculous. It's like saying GWB got a bunch of thugs to kill a bunch of people right before his election in Texas so he could get in on a tough crime package.

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He has asked for private citizens to report to the police anyone they know of who owns certain types of rifles. Guilt by association.

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How is this different from broadcasting a plea looking for a specific type of vehicle used, say, in a hit-and-run? "Police are looking for a black late model Honda Civic, with body damage to the right side of the vehicle ..."

[ 10-05-2002, 09:41 AM: Message edited by: CiaJ ]

[CopInNY]

I'm with Crazy. I don't see anything wrong with that. At the very least, having a list of people who owns certain types of rifles would make the investigation process go faster.

The gun is just another tool used in a crime, like Ciaj said. Whether it be a gun, a vehicle, a knife, blunt instrument, whatever, just a tool...

[shooter1201]

Go ahead....open Pandora's Box......report your neighbor, friend, etc, for possessing a LEGAL item, then stand back and watch what happens.

If it worked in Nazi Germany, it can work in Maryland.

[CinaC]

So, Shooter, if a guy is involved in a hit and run with a car, and the police ask for info on that specific type of car ... that's the resurgance of Nazi Germany? I don't think so.

[retired]

Cia,

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Originally posted by CiaJ:
So, Shooter, if a guy is involved in a hit and run with a car, and the police ask for info on that specific type of car ... that's the resurgance of Nazi Germany? I don't think so.

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Hit and run is an unlawful act, owning a rifle is not!

[CinaC]

Retired, no one is questioning that.

But even though using it in a hit and run is illegal, owning a car is not. In the same way, even though it is illegal to use a rifle to murder people, it is not illegal to own a rifle.

So I don't see how anyone can think its okay for police to ask for information on a car used in an illegal act, but not for a rifle used in an illegal act.

"Yesterday, a [description of person] used a [object: car/gun?] in the commission of a [type of crime]. We're looking for any information on this [description of person] and [object]. Thank you."

[ 10-05-2002, 11:20 AM: Message edited by: CiaJ ]

[shooter1201]

MY rifles have NEVER been used in any illegal act and WILL NOT be examined by anyone.

The resurgence of Nazi Germany may not happen, but Nazi-like tactics are being employed by the Powers that Be, and are seemingly justified under the thin veil of public safety.

The Nazis used friends, neighbors...even CHILDREN to inform on the behaviors, political beliefs and actions of each other.

Nahhhh....you're right. THAT would never happen HERE......

[ 10-05-2002, 11:41 AM: Message edited by: shooter1201 ]

[Mike Tx]

I think the Chief calling for neighbors to turn neighbors in that have a .223 rifle is going to far. What happens when someone says they know a person down the street with a .223 scoped rifle, and the police go to check it out. What grounds to they have to search this gus home? All they have is the fact that he "may" have a rifle.

It's getting real scary lately, and I can't see it getting any better soon. Hopefully I am wrong.

As far as the chief, just about an hour ago he said there was "high anxiety" among the people there. The media talker took that on to the next level of course. You know, like the Mel Brooks movie.

[retired]

Cia,

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Originally posted by CiaJ:
Retired, no one is questioning that.

But even though using it in a hit and run is illegal, owning a car is not. In the same way, even though it is illegal to use a rifle to murder people, it is not illegal to own a rifle.

So I don't see how anyone can think its okay for police to ask for information on a car used in an illegal act, but not for a rifle used in an illegal act.

"Yesterday, a [description of person] used a [object: car/gun?] in the commission of a [type of crime]. We're looking for any information on this [description of person] and [object]. Thank you."

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The chief isn't asking for info on a rifle used in a criminal act. He is asking for information on anyone who might own one. There is a big difference between that and asking for info on a vehicle used in a hit and run.

[bearclaw1]

Maybe asking people to call in on their neighbors, but look at it this way. They have no idea who the shooter is, it could be someone on this forum for all the chief knows. I'm not saying it is someone on this forum so don't start going crazy on me. I would not like it if someone came to my door and started asking questions about my guns, but if it would help then fine. I know I havent shot anyone, so I have nothing to hide.

Owning a rifle is not an unlawfull act, but killing 5 people for no reason is! So if it meant letting someone check my rifles to maybe get closer to the shooter, then come get them and check them.

As far as saying a politician hired someone to kill 5 people for no reason to get elected then that is just CRAZY!!!

[Frank Booth]

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But even though using it in a hit and run is illegal, owning a car is not. In the same way, even though it is illegal to use a rifle to murder people, it is not illegal to own a rifle.

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If the police were investigating a hit and run accident involving a Blue Ford Explorer, it would not be unreasonable for them to question as many owners of Blue Ford Explorers as it took to find the perpetrator. Likewise, if they're dealing with a sniper armed with a Colt AR-15 in .223, it would not be unreasonable, nor would it be unconstitutional to find as many Colt AR-15 owners as possible to talk to to try and track down a mass murderer or serial murderer. Or any kind of murderer for that matter. It is absolutely not unconstitutional for the police to ask the public for information. I don't know why people are so hung up on their guns. You didn't hear anyone complaining that the police are stopping all white vans to investigate. If they're doing it just because they're white vans, and without a legitmate pretextual (traffic) reason for the stop, and you can bet some of them are, THAT'S unconstitutional.

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I think the Chief calling for neighbors to turn neighbors in that have a .223 rifle is going to far. What happens when someone says they know a person down the street with a .223 scoped rifle, and the police go to check it out. What grounds to they have to search this gus home? All they have is the fact that he "may" have a rifle.

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Who says they're going to search the home? The police have as much right to knock on someone's door and ask questions as you do.

[Frank Booth]

I love the words some people use to describe guns and bullets. This was from today's paper:

http://www.freep.com/news/nw/md5_20021005.htm

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Moose confirmed Friday that ballistic evidence showed that the victims most likely were shot by a sniper using high-intensity .223-caliber bullets of the sort used by rifle hunters and soldiers.

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"High intensity"? They couldn't have just said "high velocity" or "powerful"?

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Detectives' confirmation of the stalker's powerful marksmanship plus the possibility that the gunman might have widened his field

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"Powerful marksmanship"? They couldn't have said "profficient" or "excellent"? Is "powerful marksmanship" like "powerful penmanship" or "powerful craftsmanship"?

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The deadliness of the gunman's intent was clear as a federal firearms expert explained that the .223 caliber bullet, while relatively small, was designed for high-velocity firing from an outsized cartridge packed with extra gunpowder.

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"outsized" compared to what? A .22 long rifle round? "Extra gunpowder"? You can only put in as much gunpowder as will fit in the case. How do you pack "extra" in?

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The extra force means that the bullet, acting like a speedboat, tears an extra-large trajectory into a victim,

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yeah, I often see that in people who have been shot with speedboats. It's enough to make me want to move away from bodies of water. "Extra large trajectory" huh? "We have to use a "bullet word" we can't just say "hole", or "path".

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An expert marksman can hit a target at 500 yards with the kind of weapon likely used in these killings,

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The first time I fired a rifle I was hitting the target at 500 yards, and I'm no expert.

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The very idea that such high-intensity open-field weaponry was being brought to bear covertly on innocent people chilled residents trying to go about their business.

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"High-intensity, open-field weaponry"......I hope the guy who wrote this never tries a novel....

[Watchman]

He has asked for private citizens to report to the police anyone they know of who owns certain types of rifles. Guilt by association.

Lets see...we have a police cheif in one of the most anti-gun states in the union asking for people that have "certain types of weapons".

All the police know is the caliber, which is .223.

They havent said if its a AR-15,a .223 bolt action, a .223 Contender or one of several other pistols chambered for .223, it could be literally just about any type of gun out there.

So we have a police chief asking the good neighbors to turn in anyone that "might" have this types of weapon. If this forum is indicative of the knowledge of the average citizen has about guns and even the knowledge that the average cop has about guns then we are screwed.
That police chief is going to get hundreds of responses by people that really think they are "helping" by reporting other citizens that have gun.

Dont think for a minute that said police chief wont compile a "list" of people that own certain calibers to use for future reference, in fact "registering"said guns and owners. This practice is illegal.

Some of these responses remind me of the people in Germany that considered it their civic duty to turn in Jews that were living amongst them. They were killed by the "state" for made up reasons, yet history shows us that the same people that thought they were "helping" could'nt or would'nt beleive that the people they turned in were executed.

Afte reading some of the responses here I get this sinking feeling that we are doomed to repeat history.

And we have this gem from Frank:

If the police were investigating a hit and run accident involving a Blue Ford Explorer, it would not be unreasonable for them to question as many owners of Blue Ford Explorers as it took to find the perpetrator.

Sounds good but it reality it dosent happen does it? Nobody stops a vehicle unless they have a valid reason to stop it.

Likewise, if they're dealing with a sniper armed with a Colt AR-15 in .223, it would not be unreasonable, nor would it be unconstitutional to find as many Colt AR-15 owners as possible to talk to to try and track down a mass murderer or serial murderer.

Flawed logic. It is unreasonable. You may have time to do that where the population is scared of guns, but where you could spend years talking to owners of AR's around here where I live. I suspect you wouldnt get much info out of people here anyway. If you interviewed me I'd politely tell you to take a hike. That alone is enough for the antigunners to "assume" guilt and get a search warrant for a "type" of gun.

Or any kind of murderer for that matter. It is absolutely not unconstitutional for the police to ask the public for information. I don't know why people are so hung up on their guns. You didn't hear anyone complaining that the police are stopping all white vans to investigate. If they're doing it just because they're white vans, and without a legitmate pretextual (traffic) reason for the stop, and you can bet some of them are, THAT'S unconstitutional.

People arent "hung up" on guns. Perhaps you arent smart enough to figure this out by yourself, so I'll help you. Its the PRINCIPAL of the thing. Today I've got an AR, so Im "guilty by association". Whats it gonna be tommorrow ?

Who says they're going to search the home? The police have as much right to knock on someone's door and ask questions as you do.

You dont get out much do you ?
In some states refusal to search is a justifiable excuse to get a search warrant and it is most easily done with guns.

Yeah they have a right to ask you anything. You have a right to not say a thing.

In the mean time, this touchy feely good "solution" of neighbors turning in people that "may" have a gun like the one used, is just wasting time that could be spent catching the perps. Its a waste of time and resources.

Do you think that the shooters would let you see their rifle even if the cops asked them ?
If your answer is yes, then you are part of the problem with this country that makes it so attractive to terrorists.

Just my 02 cents.

[Watchman]

You are right Frank.
This article is a major attempt by someone that doesnt know guns to demonize them.

I wonder how many antigun statements will be made over this ?

In reality, using a varmint round to shoot people is a less than ideal choice.
Even at 500 yards, most people could'nt hit a man sized target without several shots.
They'd be puttin them in the dirt.

And it could have been worse. What if some bonafide terrosits started wacking people with supressed weapons ? People wouldnt have a clue where it was coming from. A couple of teams driving around a big city could wreak total havoc and probably get away with it.