Leader

Collapse

Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

ASPs for Public?

Collapse

300x250 Mobile

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • ASPs for Public?

    Ok...in the similar thread discussing tasers....someone brought up the fact that we do not have pepper spray fights in the streets...or collapsible batton fights either.

    That reminded me of a friend who said he would arrest anyone he found to have an ASP on their person. He said he felt that this consituted a deadly weapon and would charge them with a CCW.

    This brings about several thoughts that I would be interested in hearing your opinions on.

    1) Would you consider a collapsible batton a deadly weapon...provided that it was not used in an aggressive manner?

    2) In Ohio, we have a Concealed HANDGUN License. The affirmative defenses in the law were removed with the creation of the CHL...effectively making it very difficult to carry any weapon...even a defensive one....other than a handgun. Should defensive weapons (used for defensive purposes only) like the ASPs, be permitted to be carried by someone who does not want to carry a gun or spend the money for a taser?

    3) Where would you personally draw the line? Would you allow a guy in a business suit to keep his 2 3/4" buck folder in his pocket, while confiscating the 1" folder with a pocket clip from a skateboarder with baggy pants down to his knees?

    (I personally don't have a pat answer at this point....I'll post one after I think about this some more )
    An impressionable child in a tumultuous world, and they say I'm at a difficult stage... --Meat Loaf

    Professional Stupidity Recognition Technician

  • #2
    I'm pretty sure you can just log in to any police equipment website and buy an ASP, www.copsplus.com comes to mind... I would hardly think carrying a baton on your person constitutes unlawful use of weapons - it's like carrying around a baseball bat in your car or something... But I could be wrong.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by JKooL
      I'm pretty sure you can just log in to any police equipment website and buy an ASP, www.copsplus.com comes to mind... I would hardly think carrying a baton on your person constitutes unlawful use of weapons - it's like carrying around a baseball bat in your car or something... But I could be wrong.
      *nod* you can. I sell them along with knives, swords and martial arts, and LE supplies.

      And I agree with you. But I have heard of some instances where a cop would arrest for CCW if the baseball bat was in the car without a ball and glove, or if it was partial hidden under the seat etc. Or, one I heard about, the guy was moving and had two ANTIQUE knives...they were in a box or whatever. It was a DUI sweep apparently, anyway, when asked if there was anything in the car the guy said he had a couple knives in the back seat someplace buried amongst the stuff he was moving. They charged him with two counts of CCW.

      I was just wondering where that line was for the majority of folks here on the site.
      An impressionable child in a tumultuous world, and they say I'm at a difficult stage... --Meat Loaf

      Professional Stupidity Recognition Technician

      Comment


      • #4
        In CA it is a Felony to carry a baton or ASP.
        "Respect for religion must be reestablished. Public debt should be reduced. The arrogance of public officials must be curtailed. Assistance to foreign lands must be stopped or we shall bankrupt ourselves. The people should be forced to work and not depend on government for subsistence." - Cicero, 60 B.C.

        For California police academy notes go to http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CABasicPolice/

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by zap
          This brings about several thoughts that I would be interested in hearing your opinions on.

          1) Would you consider a collapsible batton a deadly weapon...provided that it was not used in an aggressive manner?
          I am saying this being not an LEO, and from my own personal opinion (which may be wrong).

          I would say yes, a baton could be considered a deadly weapon. However, by your logic (which I am not questioning, just observing), a handgun is not a deadly weapon unless it is used in an aggressive manner. Sure they have deadly tendencies, but have to be used in a given manner to be deadly.

          The difference between the two is that you do have to be registered to own a firearm, while you do not have to be registered to own an ASP.

          I personally do not see the difference between an ASP, and the ball-peen hammers/flashlights/baseball bats that someone else brought up in the Motorcycle Gang threads. I'd rather take a shot from an ASP than any of those other three.

          I guess my point is that anything can be considered a deadly weapon, one of my college professors told us about times he's written a report and a VCR or Rolling pin was the deadly weapon the party was charged with.


          2) In Ohio, we have a Concealed HANDGUN License. The affirmative defenses in the law were removed with the creation of the CHL...effectively making it very difficult to carry any weapon...even a defensive one....other than a handgun. Should defensive weapons (used for defensive purposes only) like the ASPs, be permitted to be carried by someone who does not want to carry a gun or spend the money for a taser?
          I would say the defensive weapons would be a bad idea, unless they require special training like firearms do (Use of Force etc. Announce it to an LEO right away, do not use unless your life is in danger.) The problems that will arise is when someone with an ASP shoots his mouth off and pulls it on the guy with a gun.

          3) Where would you personally draw the line? Would you allow a guy in a business suit to keep his 2 3/4" buck folder in his pocket, while confiscating the 1" folder with a pocket clip from a skateboarder with baggy pants down to his knees?
          I don't see why not, I would say a skateboarder has to worry a little more about his personal safety than a executive in a Benz. If neither one is using it in a threatening manner, take the knife from both of them for the duration of your call/traffic stop and give it back to them, same as with a firearm. It should also be considered that knives have many more uses that personal defense, while ASPs and firearms do not.
          A true soldier fights not because he hates what is in front of him, but because he loves what is behind him.

          -GK Chesterton

          Comment


          • #6
            Well, I have a few ?'s to respond to here. No, no drive by ASP'ings but it is the law, much like taking the bayonet lugs off of rifles, ever heard of a drive by bayoneting?

            Firearms have more uses than just self defense, target shooting & hunting to name two.

            Contrary to belief, the ASP does take training to be effective where a large flashlight would take less training to do significant damage.

            Most states do not req' you to be registered in order to use your 2nd amendment rights.

            Some laws just don't make sense, you'll have to deal with it. In CA it is 347$ or so for a carpool violation but 100$ when you leave your kid in the car unattended on a hot day.
            "Respect for religion must be reestablished. Public debt should be reduced. The arrogance of public officials must be curtailed. Assistance to foreign lands must be stopped or we shall bankrupt ourselves. The people should be forced to work and not depend on government for subsistence." - Cicero, 60 B.C.

            For California police academy notes go to http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CABasicPolice/

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Contact
              The difference between the two is that you do have to be registered to own a firearm, while you do not have to be registered to own an ASP.

              Not true in all circumstances my friend. Our law for instance, prohibits any method of identifying a particular firearm carried by a CHL holder. We do not have to register, and our background checks take maybe 20 minutes while you are milling around the store. I have a friend in CA and he keeps me up on some of the strange quirks they have there. It is a different world for sure.

              BTW....I agree that there should be some sort of licensing and training to carry a defensive weapon. But like I told the guy I referred to in the original post....I can absolutely mess you up with a walking cane....would you arrest me for that too?

              I just have the opinion that the average person who is in public should have some way to protect themselves from a thug. I am still not sure where I personally draw the line. That is the reason for asking the questions here...to request discussion and other viewpoints to consider.

              ....btw....it just seems a little odd to me personally, that if a guy can pass the checks to become a CHL holder in Ohio, that he could be stopped for say speeding, and the LEO is required to return his loaded gun at the end of the stop, but he could still be arrested for CCW if he also had an ASP in his back pocket.
              Last edited by zap; 07-26-2005, 01:42 PM.
              An impressionable child in a tumultuous world, and they say I'm at a difficult stage... --Meat Loaf

              Professional Stupidity Recognition Technician

              Comment


              • #8
                I thnik I'd draw the line at grenades but other than that, the bad guys are always going to carry whatever they want so the good guys should be able to also. Alaska and VT have it right with their laws.

                CA has a lot of quirks in the laws. It is hard to get a straight answer from a prosecutor much less a street officer. I was lucky enough to ace my weapons law test but even at that I don't consider myself an expert as their is such widely varying opinion on transport and carry in the state. Or instructor said we could carry in our car on the seat as long as the ammo wasn't in the gun but other officers thought that the gun needed to be in the trunk.
                "Respect for religion must be reestablished. Public debt should be reduced. The arrogance of public officials must be curtailed. Assistance to foreign lands must be stopped or we shall bankrupt ourselves. The people should be forced to work and not depend on government for subsistence." - Cicero, 60 B.C.

                For California police academy notes go to http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CABasicPolice/

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by zap
                  Not true in all circumstances my friend. Our law for instance, prohibits any method of identifying a particular firearm carried by a CHL holder. We do not have to register, and our background checks take maybe 20 minutes while you are milling around the store. I have a friend in CA and he keeps me up on some of the strange quirks they have there. It is a different world for sure.
                  Wow!

                  Here in MI, the only weapons that do not need to be registered are long guns (Unless when fitted with a pistol grip, becomes less than a certian length, not sure on the cutoff length.) And to purchase a pistol, you have to get a purchase permit from the PD of the city you live in. This permit can take anywhere from 15 minutes to a week depending on the staffing of the PD. Shotguns can be purchased by the method you described, just a background check that is usually finished by the time you are done filling out the paperwork.
                  A true soldier fights not because he hates what is in front of him, but because he loves what is behind him.

                  -GK Chesterton

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Contact
                    Wow!

                    Here in MI, the only weapons that do not need to be registered are long guns

                    LOL no kidding...and I can legally, as a civi, carry my handgun concealed because of the reciprocity between our states.
                    An impressionable child in a tumultuous world, and they say I'm at a difficult stage... --Meat Loaf

                    Professional Stupidity Recognition Technician

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by pkagel
                      I thnik I'd draw the line at grenades but other than that, the bad guys are always going to carry whatever they want so the good guys should be able to also. Alaska and VT have it right with their laws.

                      CA has a lot of quirks in the laws. It is hard to get a straight answer from a prosecutor much less a street officer. I was lucky enough to ace my weapons law test but even at that I don't consider myself an expert as their is such widely varying opinion on transport and carry in the state. Or instructor said we could carry in our car on the seat as long as the ammo wasn't in the gun but other officers thought that the gun needed to be in the trunk.

                      Not to veer too far into hijack mode, but in MI it has to be in an area not immediately accessible to the occupants, such as the trunk. I have a pickup truck with an extended cab, so I keep my weapon in the extended cab portion, the truck has a retractable tarp that will pull out to cover the contents of the extended cab, so I pull that so no one can see whats back there. My last car was a hatchback, no trunk so there was no where that was inaccessible to me, so I kept it at the very back of the car, what would be considered the trunk.

                      Basically, if you are driving and can reach the gun, it is not being legally transported.
                      A true soldier fights not because he hates what is in front of him, but because he loves what is behind him.

                      -GK Chesterton

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by zap
                        LOL no kidding...and I can legally, as a civi, carry my handgun concealed because of the reciprocity between our states.

                        I believe your concealed carry licence is a little harder to aquire than ours is, isn't it? Here is about an 8 hour class and a waiting period, which varies depending on the county you live in. I think my friend in OH said theirs was about a 60hr class. I've been wrong before.
                        A true soldier fights not because he hates what is in front of him, but because he loves what is behind him.

                        -GK Chesterton

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          What do they teach in that 8 hours? What weapons are you allowed to carry?
                          "Respect for religion must be reestablished. Public debt should be reduced. The arrogance of public officials must be curtailed. Assistance to foreign lands must be stopped or we shall bankrupt ourselves. The people should be forced to work and not depend on government for subsistence." - Cicero, 60 B.C.

                          For California police academy notes go to http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CABasicPolice/

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by pkagel
                            What do they teach in that 8 hours? What weapons are you allowed to carry?

                            Safe handling, transportation, and when you can/cannot use the weapon is pretty much all they pack into it.
                            A true soldier fights not because he hates what is in front of him, but because he loves what is behind him.

                            -GK Chesterton

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              In Ohio, the NRA Basic Pistol course will suffice...IF the classroom section is expanded to inlcude a minimum of 10 hours. (normall BP is 8hr classroom and 2hr range) The standard of the Ohio law is 10 hours of classroom and 2 hours of range time.

                              Additionally, we (NRA Instructors) are required to provide the AGs little handbook to our students for the class to qualify for the Ohio CHLs. We go over basics primarily, safety, types and actions, cleaning, sight picture...nothing that anyone who can hit what they are shooting at can't handle.

                              One other thing though, the instructor is required to certify that the student was competent both with the written exam (mandatory also) and on the range. Most of the guys I know require a student to be able to hit a 9" plate 80% before passing and do the same on the test. There is some leeway for descretion by the instructor.


                              As for what guns you can carry....the sky is the limit. I must however be a handgun as defined by the new law. As far as caliber or action, no issues. Carry what you want. For the course however, I normally strongly suggest .38 or larger, though it's not required. Same for the Personal Protection in the Home Course...that one is mandated by the NRA.
                              An impressionable child in a tumultuous world, and they say I'm at a difficult stage... --Meat Loaf

                              Professional Stupidity Recognition Technician

                              Comment

                              MR300x250 Tablet

                              Collapse

                              What's Going On

                              Collapse

                              There are currently 4847 users online. 244 members and 4603 guests.

                              Most users ever online was 26,947 at 07:36 PM on 12-29-2019.

                              Welcome Ad

                              Collapse
                              Working...
                              X