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  • #46
    Finch said:
    Maybe I'm missing something, but gun-related violence in the US is so out of whack compared to most other countries.
    The answer to is so obvious that it is often missed. It is because we have more guns in the US than almost every other country. I notice that your (Canadas) billion dollar gun registry isnt quite working out the way it was planned either.

    The point that Zap was trying to make is that States that have loosened gun laws and put into place common sense concealed weapons laws for Citizens, all have had a sharp drop in violent crime. That fact tends to mess with our liberals heads.

    Comment


    • #47
      Well, Finch....we do disagree. Not surprisingly so...but rather predictiably so. I never fail to be rather amused when the rabbit trail of my opponent always goes back to the root of "I disagree", or just restating the argument that was just blown to bits.

      We have proven as Norm says, that in states with common sense laws that allow RESPONSIBLE QUALIFIED citizens to not only own, but to carry and use firearms for defensive purposes, we do not all turn into cowboys...but the bad guys do start shaking in their boots and violent crime sharply drops.

      Australia thought the same thing...ban the guns. They did. Then they had to ban the swords cause the BGs started using those....last I heard...they were studying the need for large kitchen knives. How far down this slippery slope do you wish to go my friend before you can't come back? Ask the UK and Australia about their violent crime rate after the banning of guns. They took off like a jet.

      I still feel that the issue here really is that of freedom. Be it tasers, guns, or kitchen knives. Responsible adult citizens should be allowed to use the tools they see fit to use to defend themselves, their families, and their country.

      Unlike our liberals here...I do NOT think that the average citizen is too stupid to do things for themselves without being a menace to society.

      The problems you mentioned are symptoms of a societal issue...not one of guns, tasers or kitchen knives. No matter how you wrap it..that does not change.

      ...oh...and btw....I still have not had an answer to why a BG would give a rip about a law banning guns.



      I have enjoyed the discussion...it is nice to delve into this topic without name calling and rudeness.... Thank you for that.
      An impressionable child in a tumultuous world, and they say I'm at a difficult stage... --Meat Loaf

      Professional Stupidity Recognition Technician

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      • #48
        ...oh...and btw....I still have not had an answer to why a BG would give a rip about a law banning guns.
        For the same reason that he would give a rip about murdering/raping/dealing etc etc. By your logic, there's no sense in any laws simply because BG's don't give a rip.

        All I know is that in Canada, there isn't much gun related violence and the US has a ton. While guns can save lives, I think they create more harm than good. Moreover, while a law restricting them isn't the be all and end all, I think it would make a difference. I think the US is past the point of no return in that department really. The laws have been in place so long and there are just so many guns, it would be next to impossible to have an impact.

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        • #49
          Hummmmmmmm

          I guess he will not touch the wonderful states that ahve consealed carrie like the nice state of missouri where our goverment decided the people have a right do defend them selfs.
          Wish I could get drunk after two beers

          Comment


          • #50
            My guy's a veteran Sheriff's Office employee and his concern is the public's ability to obtain and use a taser on a LEO. Training won't matter, anyone can point and shoot...Subdue a cop, then get his weapon, kinda scary to imagine...
            He is getting ready to undergo Taser Qualification. I was naive enough to not realize the general public could have access to Tasers. Course, they seem to be able to get anything else they want, so guess I shouldn't be surprised....
            Y'all be safe and happy....

            Comment


            • #51
              Originally posted by lt93lover
              My guy's a veteran Sheriff's Office employee and his concern is the public's ability to obtain and use a taser on a LEO. Training won't matter, anyone can point and shoot...Subdue a cop, then get his weapon, kinda scary to imagine...
              He is getting ready to undergo Taser Qualification. I was naive enough to not realize the general public could have access to Tasers. Course, they seem to be able to get anything else they want, so guess I shouldn't be surprised....
              Y'all be safe and happy....
              Seeing as your profile says your in Texas(God Bless Texas ) this is a ridiculous post. Any law abiding Texan(God Bless Texas ) can buy a firearm and get a CCW. So why would you worry about a Tazer?

              Norm357 who hopes to live in Texas(God Bless Texas ) one day.

              Comment


              • #52
                Originally posted by lt93lover
                My guy's a veteran Sheriff's Office employee and his concern is the public's ability to obtain and use a taser on a LEO. Training won't matter, anyone can point and shoot...Subdue a cop, then get his weapon, kinda scary to imagine...
                He is getting ready to undergo Taser Qualification. I was naive enough to not realize the general public could have access to Tasers. Course, they seem to be able to get anything else they want, so guess I shouldn't be surprised....
                Y'all be safe and happy....

                Well, if you are going to get shot with SOMETHING....it is much better to be shot with a $1000 taser than a $40 .38 I just think the economics of the thing will deter bad guys from having them, which automatically reduces the chance of a LEO being on the receiving end of one.

                ....but the rule STILL applies....you point it at a LEO....you get shot with a REAL gun.
                An impressionable child in a tumultuous world, and they say I'm at a difficult stage... --Meat Loaf

                Professional Stupidity Recognition Technician

                Comment


                • #53
                  Originally posted by Finch
                  Morally maybe, but ultimately, (untrained) citizens shouldn't be deciding when to shoot someone. There are the obvious cases where everyone knows to shoot someone (someone knifing someone else etc.), but when it comes down to split second decisions, it takes a highly trained individual to use a firearm properly (under the law).
                  Y'know what...

                  That statement just stopped me dead in my tracks. I was reading, reading, reading and then BAM! I had to reply to this. I read no further than that, so forgive me if someone has already said this:

                  But here is the problem with you anti's...

                  YOU ALL BELIEVE PEOPLE CAN'T THINK FOR THEMSELVES!

                  It shouldn't be up to me when to shoot someone?! EXCUSE ME?! If someone comes into MY house, threatens MY life, MY family, hell if they threaten MY damn DOG...I am going to shoot until the magazine is empty.

                  Criminals have NO right to steal my property or harm me or my family. But thankfully I live in a FREE NATION, unlike Canada, and I have the SACRED RIGHT to defend my loved ones, myself, and my property!

                  And to the American Anti's: This nation was founded on the right to possess firearms. The right to keep and bear arms may be the SECOND Amendment, but it is truly America's FIRST FREEDOM. And anyone who seeks to threaten that right is not an American in my eyes.

                  Sorry, you struck a nerve.
                  Bill Cosby: Stewie, what do you think candy is made out of?
                  Stewie Griffin: Sunshine and farts! What the hell kind of question is that?!

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Originally posted by Puget Sound
                    But here is the problem with you anti's...
                    Relax. It's just an opinion.

                    YOU ALL BELIEVE PEOPLE CAN'T THINK FOR THEMSELVES!
                    Where did I say that?

                    hell if they threaten MY damn DOG...I am going to shoot until the magazine is empty.
                    Hence why people shouldn't have firearms.

                    Also, should cops shoot all B&E suspects? And let's say they don't, but the suspect is convicted of B&E, should they get the death penalty? The fact that you would kill a human being who threatens your dog is scary.

                    Criminals have NO right to steal my property or harm me or my family.
                    I agree.

                    But thankfully I live in a FREE NATION, unlike Canada, and I have the SACRED RIGHT to defend my loved ones, myself, and my property!
                    Canada is a free nation. And we can defend ourselves just fine. We just have to have more grounds than some guy threatening our dog.

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Originally posted by Finch
                      And we can defend ourselves just fine.
                      So how is that possible if a citizen can't have a handgun and there isn't a police officer around? Use a baseball bat?
                      Hail hail the gang's all here, when the going gets tough I know my friends will still be there. - Drop Kick Murphys, "The Gang's all Here"

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Originally posted by Finch
                        I've said it before and I'll say it again; the only people who should have firearms are military and police.

                        Too bad for the rest.
                        And this statement will bring you a promotion, tax break and a platnium membership card of the Lieberal Party of Canada.

                        And the real question: what in the world makes you believe that only you should have a gun ?

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          Originally posted by scanner
                          And the real question: what in the world makes you believe that only you should have a gun ?
                          The US has proven that when you allow people to have guns, thousands and thousands of people will die each year because of it.

                          I should have one because I'm a police officer.

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            don't think your country will ever have un-wanted hordes of
                            invaders, the u.s.a due to it's climate and fertil lands
                            would be a target if their was a real enemy invasion,
                            thus the citizenry has to be ready to be mobilized in case
                            of civil disturbance " DEPUTIZED " by the local Sheriff.
                            canada's answer is " let them eat cake' and let them get
                            fat, thus they won't bitch about high tax's or other social ill's.

                            www.schackdaddy.com
                            " if you talk in your sleep, don't mention my name....
                            " if you walk in your sleep, forget where you came....

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              Originally posted by Finch
                              Relax. It's just an opinion.

                              Where did I say that?
                              When you basically said that civilians aren't smart enough to operate a firearm and don't know when and how to use them properly.

                              Originally posted by Finch
                              Hence why people shouldn't have firearms.
                              Sorry, but if a person breaks into my house and is aggressive in any way, they're coming out in a body bag. Seems pretty reasonable to me. Don't break into my house and you won't get shot.

                              Originally posted by Finch
                              Also, should cops shoot all B&E suspects? And let's say they don't, but the suspect is convicted of B&E, should they get the death penalty? The fact that you would kill a human being who threatens your dog is scary.
                              Police officers don't have a duty to protect. They are not legally obligated to protect my property. They don't have the right to shoot a B&E suspect unless the suspect threatens their life or the life of someone else. But here in the Land of the Free, if someone breaks into your house, you have a legal right to eliminate the threat.

                              Bottom line is...if someone breaks into your house and you call the police, they could take half an hour to get there if you live in a rural area. The BEST line of defense you have is a personally owned firearm and every year thousands of Americans use them to JUSTLY defend themselves or their property.

                              If I hear someone that is obviously prowling around OUTSIDE my house, you bet I'll call the police. But if someone is INSIDE my house, there is NO WAY IN HELL I am going to call the police and wait for them to show up. The last thing that perp is going to see is the business end of a 12 gauge shotgun.

                              In my town, the ONE police officer on duty could take as much as 30 minutes to get there. The county deputies could take an hour. I wouldn't expect anyone to wait around without taking the situation into their own hands.
                              Bill Cosby: Stewie, what do you think candy is made out of?
                              Stewie Griffin: Sunshine and farts! What the hell kind of question is that?!

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                Originally posted by Puget Sound
                                When you basically said that civilians aren't smart enough to operate a firearm and don't know when and how to use them properly.
                                You're putting words into my mouth (or onto my screen :/ ). I'm a smart guy who went to university, but prior to my training at the academy, I shouldn't have been anywhere near a firearm.

                                Sorry, but if a person breaks into my house and is aggressive in any way, they're coming out in a body bag.
                                Pretty hostile way of putting it, but I have no issue with that. You didn't mention them being aggressive in your previous post. If someone breaks into your house and is threatening you or trying to harm you, then by all means, shoot 'em up.

                                Don't break into my house and you won't get shot.
                                Let's say the police get there while the subject is inside. They don't have authority to shoot the suspect (they need more than someone simply breaking into a residence). Unless they're threatening you/agressive, I don't see why you should be able to shoot him/her. His/her life is still worth more than the china he may have taken from your cabinet.

                                But here in the Land of the Free, if someone breaks into your house, you have a legal right to eliminate the threat.
                                We're going in circles here, but as I said, if the intruder is threatening you, then sure, have at 'er. But, let's say you startle the intruder and he/she takes off. Would you still shoot him/her (ie. there's no threat of bodily harm at this point)?


                                Now, don't get me wrong. I know I'm not Mr.Popular here, but I am on the good guy's side. I have a severe distaste for criminals and love catching them. However, without a threat to life, I don't think anyone should be shot.

                                Comment

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