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  • Drunkcop
    replied
    Originally posted by Soleil_nuage
    This is such a vexing problem with no easy solutions or choices. I am sure that it's exactly how the terrorists want it. In an open society I guess you can't warn people about how to act in different scenarios without the bad guys also hearing about it, and planning ways around them.

    and THAT is exactly why I started this thread.

    Leave a comment:


  • Radio
    replied
    I got that one out of a movie.
    It was in Tombstone when Kurt Russle approaches the "*******" dealer and slaps him around and has him leave thus takeing over his dealing buisness.
    As you can see that line made an impression on my mind haha.

    Leave a comment:


  • Radio
    replied
    Originally posted by Soleil_nuage
    Anyway, we wonder why one would have to go on leave after shooting someone. In the movies and TV shows, cops shoot people and walk away as heroes. We don't get to see the anguish and trauma that the cop experiences from the shooting itself and from the "routine" investigation. And frankly, I had no clue about this until I read the thread in the Squad Room about helping a fellow officer cope with a shooting.
    You hit the nail on the head with that one. I have not had to shoot anyone in my short 4.5 years as a LEO and i hope i NEVER have to.

    But just to let any other non police know...... when i pull out my gun i aim to Kill. If i precieve you as such a thret that i need to skin my smoke wagon then you can bet i precieve you as a possible thret on my life and will shoot to kill.

    Leave a comment:


  • gotthblues
    replied
    alsoooooooo,,firearms are LETHAL FORCE, not a laso to wrangle up bad people,,if you pull your firearm, you better be ready to take a life, not wing 'em so they cant run so fast.

    Leave a comment:


  • 6233108
    replied
    Originally posted by Soleil_nuage
    Interesting. I think police shooting of suspects is one area where the public, including me, just doesn't understand how the police operate. I have always thought that police shoot people to temporarily neutralize them. I am reading from your post that you shoot to kill. I think the public think that only soldiers shoot to kill, not the police.
    Shows how little folks actually know about deadly force, not that most folks care to know about such things. In a traditional war it is beneficial to wound opposing soldiers to tie up other soldiers caring for the wounded (not a strategy dealing with terrorist insurgents). Police shoot for center mass due to it being the largest area available and easiest target to hit under stress due the size of the area on most people. Police shoot to stop the threat, if death is a result we have little control over that. Shootings happen in the blink of an eye and few soldiers or police officers are amazingly accurate shots to shoot to wound, it is not realistic to expect police to wound someone that is trying to kill them or some other citizen. What if you do not wound them effectively enough to stop them and they kill you or another citizen? Handgun bullets do not have the blow you out of your shoes effect Hollywood would have you believe, handguns are relatively ineffective killing tools, long guns are far better at producing fatal wounds that incapacitate the receipent quickly.

    In the case of this suspected bomber they did not want to shoot him anywhere near the area he might have had a bomb concealed, if they did it might have detonated. So they shot him in the head.
    Last edited by 6233108; 07-25-2005, 04:57 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • Radio
    replied
    Originally posted by retired
    What if he had been an undercover officer following a suspected terrorist? I know that in my department, I wouldn't recognize most of the u/c officers.
    Im sure an Undercover Police officer would not run from other Officers. Im also sure that if he were undercover following a suspect that other undercover officers are following that they would know of each other.
    Since we are on " What IF's "..... what if the guy wasent shot and blew up the train killing 100+ people?
    Dumb "What if" question if you ask me.

    As far as FIVE shots to the head.... well they wanted to Make Sure he was DEAD. How many shots is too many? There isnt a # if you ask me; It takes how ever many it takes to make you feel that the person is DEAD. Because if he isn't dead ........ you may be.
    Yeah he was tackeled to the ground but have you ever tried to keep someone from reaching something on their person while you had them tackeled? Its VERY difficult. Imagine if he were reaching for a detonator switch and accually had gotten ahold of it....... Boom bye bye 2+ police officers and an Unknown # of passengers.
    Last edited by Radio; 07-25-2005, 01:00 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • dp15655
    replied
    Originally posted by broke
    That would make sense because most law enforcement in Great Britain are not armed...
    Not yet, but they are catching up. I was there only a week ago, and I did see a lot more armed PCs than non-(or lesser-) armed ones. If I am not mistaken, the armed divisions are made up of volunteers, who may be (by consequence) better trained and less hesitant to use their firearm.
    Anyway, the days of the kind bobby wearing only a helmet and a whistle seem to be over... and thinking of it, it all seemed to have started after the handgun ban. Ever since, you see more and more officers wearing batons, bullet/stabproof vests and (yup) firearms.

    Leave a comment:


  • broke
    replied
    Originally posted by Delta784
    I have a feeling that the plainclothes people who shot the suspect in London were SAS or some other non-police agency. They operate under much different rules, and Britain doesn't have Posse Comitatus.
    That would make sense because most law enforcement in Great Britain are not armed...

    Leave a comment:


  • 6233108
    replied
    Originally posted by retired
    What if he had been an undercover officer following a suspected terrorist? I know that in my department, I wouldn't recognize most of the u/c officers.

    A guess.......he'd still be dead

    Leave a comment:


  • retired
    replied
    Originally posted by BrickCop
    It's a tragedy but he did disobey the orders of the police during a period where England's transit system was under attack. IMO the police acted in good faith that they were stopping yet another terrorist from blowing up a train full of civilians.
    What if he had been an undercover officer following a suspected terrorist? I know that in my department, I wouldn't recognize most of the u/c officers.

    Leave a comment:


  • SR-25
    replied
    10-4 BrickCop, couldnt agree with you more.

    Leave a comment:


  • BrickCop
    replied
    It's a tragedy but he did disobey the orders of the police during a period where England's transit system was under attack. IMO the police acted in good faith that they were stopping yet another terrorist from blowing up a train full of civilians.

    Leave a comment:


  • Chiller
    replied
    Oooooooooooooooops.....We made a terrible mistake,....bummer

    Leave a comment:


  • BrickCop
    replied
    Thanks I was just curious, in no way do I give two ****s that they exterminated a terrorist.

    Leave a comment:


  • Cruiser
    replied
    It has been reported that some observed a bulky belt that had wires sticking out of it. I have no idea if this is factual or not. The Officers in London have been issued actual orders to shoot to kill and preferably shoot to the head. Far cry from out "Shoot to stop the threat" rules. Speculation is that after they tackled this person one saw something that caused him to believe this person had a bomb and he killed him to prevent him for possibly trigging said device. In the current opinions around London, the guy could be completely innocent and nothing is going to be said to this Officer. I highly doubt that this guy was innocent as saif previously, he was in a house under survaillance and was wearing a suspicious bulky coat and run when called to by people he knew as Law Enforcement Officers.

    Leave a comment:

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