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  • #16
    I stand corrected.

    I was responding to the alligation made that the ACLU said prayer should not be in law enforcement W/O looking it up.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by CHPMarine
      we are not allowed to, the ACLU has made the state of california tell us that there is no place for prayer in our line of work...
      ACLU Anti-civil Liberties Union

      As a good friend of mine said, who was once in the military, "There are no athiest in fox holes. ACLU doesn't have any business getting an individuals right to pray at work taken away. We have devotions every monday, and are on a voluntary basis. If an officer does not want to attend, he does not. It is a gtreat way to start the week and day.
      Last edited by MPD-A9; 07-20-2005, 08:35 AM.

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      • #18
        I pray for the safety of all police officers. There are times when a police car speeds by with lights and sirens on and I would pray that whatever call they may be on to please keep them safe from harm.

        I can only imagine what losing a loved one in the line of duty would do to me. It's already hard seeing someone you love leave for work.....leave for whatever he may encounter, that no one knows. Split second situations really throws me on the edge.

        Protect yourselves, always wear the vest. And remember, YOU come first.

        1 Love.

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        • #19
          we said the pledge of allegence and said a prayer, but that was just the shift that i was on, if the shift coming off wanted to be a part of it, they were welcomed. but if you are worried about a lawsuit, just download anyone of about 100 versions of the police mans prayer (not praying to specific god)

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          • #20
            Originally posted by lsmalibu
            If you can find me a lawsuit or press release by the ACLU saying California LEO's can't pray, I'll eat a frikkin' phone book with salt and ketchup.
            I posted the following a couple months back in the "CHP can't pray at officer's funerals" thread. I guess technically you still don't have to eat your phone book since the suit wasn't filed by the ACLU.

            Management Momorandum 05-003

            DISSOLUTION OF CHAPLAIN PROGRAM AND CESSATION OF INVOCATIONS AT OFFICICAL DEPARTMENTAL FUNCTIONS

            The purpose of the Management Memorandum is to notify all employees that the departmental Chaplain Program is beind dissolved, effective immediately. This dissolution is in response to a recent court case, Michael Cole, et al., v. Andrea Tuttle. Ms. Tuttle was sued in her capacity as the Director of the California Department of Forestry and Fire Prevention (CDFFP) In this case, six firefighters went to federal court seeking an end to the CDFFP Chaplain Program, contending that it illegally commingled church and state. Under the terms of the settlement agreement, the CDFFP Chaplain Program was disbanded and employees of the CDFFP were restricted to providing chaplain services on a voluntary basis only.

            With the dissolution of the California Highway Patrol's (CHP) Chaplain Program, CHP personnel will no longer act in the official capacities of either departmental Chaplain or Associate Chaplain and the official wearing of religious insignia will not be allowed. However, religious support/counseling services will continue to be available to departmental employees and their families through the CHP's Peer Support Program, but only upon request and only through the use of internal and external volunteers. CHP employees, who acted as or would have otherwise qualified as departmental Chaplain/Associate Chaplains, can choose to now be included on a volunteer list of chaplains.

            For outside volunteer resources, commanders are encouraged to identify a listing of religious local employee support resources with in their communitites, which could be made available upon request. Guidelines for identifying community-based volunteer religious resources are being developed and once completed, will be provided to commanders to assist in their selection process.

            Counseling and employee support services continue to be available through other programs such as the Employee Assistance Program, Employee Substance Abuse Program, Cancer Survivor Support Group, and Critical Incident Stress Debriefings.

            Effective immediately, the Department will also cease the practice of providing invocations and official CHP functions. As an alternative, and if appropriate, a moment of silence may be observed at such events.

            This information will be incorporated as policy in the next revision to HPM 10.5, Employee Assistance Manual and HPH 10.13, Guide to Employee Death.

            Questions regarding this Management Memorandum should be directed to Mr. Carl Lord, Commander, Hiring and Special Projects Section, at 916-375-2160.



            OFFICE OF THE COMMISSIONER
            Cowboys in town. Trouble expected.

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            • #21
              Originally posted by MPD-A9
              ACLU Ant-civil Liberties Union
              ACLU: American unCivil Liberties Union
              American Civil Liberals Union

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              • #22
                At my last duty station a group of us would get together in the parking lot after muster, join hands in a circle and pray before hitting the field. After a while the group started growing and actually attracted a few members of upper management.
                The only thing we have to fear is change itself.

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                • #23
                  I pray a lot for my shift to get over. Does that count?
                  Talk sense to a fool, and he will call you foolish - Euripides

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by lsmalibu
                    What I was actually referring to was the lunchtime prayers at the Naval Academy. While the academy refers to them as non-compulsory, it's kind of hard for the midshipmen to walk out and not participate.
                    I stand corrected and humbly apologize for my assumption. I was unaware of the request that was made to the US Naval Academy concerning prayer. As you said, the USNA maintains that the prayer is not compulsory and is multi-faith.

                    Does it hurt or offend someone to be subjected to a prayer even if they are not required to participate?
                    No man is justified in doing evil on the grounds of expediency. - Theodore Roosevelt, The Strenuous Life: Essays and Addresses (1900)

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Delta784
                      I pray a lot for my shift to get over. Does that count?
                      Yet you can't see yourself doing anything else BUT what you do now, right?

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                      • #26
                        *Not a LEO... yet*

                        I am a progressive (not a liberal), I'll put that out there first.

                        But my only issue is with compulsary prayer, i.e. reprimanded or harrassed for not participating. And no one should be persecuted or harrassed for taking a moment with their god. If others want to have a quick prayer of "let us be safe today and do good things", I have no issue with that.

                        And someone told me this a long time ago. It was tongue in cheek, but has the ring of truth, and applies outside school as well.

                        "As long as there are exams, there will be prayer in schools."


                        As for the ACLU, the lies and half-truths about their stances on things is annoying. They probably spend half their time defending the things you believe in, and the other half defending things you hate.

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                        • #27
                          When I was in tech school, we had accountability every night. Someone from each team would fall out an announce that they would pray and anyone who wanted could join them. No one had a problem with it. No one was forced to pray, or even hear others pray as it was done mostly quiet and apart from the formation.
                          RIP Brett Thompson, 17, 09/12/1989-09/14/2006

                          Seatbelts save lives

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                          • #28
                            I don't think prayer should be mandatory. With that being said, *my* freedom of religion rights are still in place. I will pray anywhere and anytime I feel like praying. Try and stop me and I'll file the lawsuit for interfering with my freedom of religion.

                            Just for the record, we don't pray at roll call. We don't pray on-duty. However, I'm just pointing out that if I want to, I will do it. It is my Constitutional Right.
                            Sign here. Press hard. You are making five copies.

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                            • #29
                              Most of my prayers are offered up silently anyway.

                              "Please let me hold my tongue while this idiot speaks"
                              "Give me the strength to NOT backhand this ignorant jackass"

                              And that's usually in a meeting at work...

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by toni_tk
                                Yet you can't see yourself doing anything else BUT what you do now, right?
                                I can see myself planted on my couch, an ice-cold Miller Lite in one hand, remote control in the other, watching the Red Sox game every night.
                                Talk sense to a fool, and he will call you foolish - Euripides

                                Comment

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