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Should she be charged?

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  • InSane1
    replied
    you want me to **** Your *** dont ya???? lol...

    Leave a comment:


  • Mr.Orange
    replied
    quote:
    She wont get charged, nor should she.

    Another expert opinion on your behalf.

    What you're missing is, that the child might have survived if he was buckled up. In no way am I laying the entire blame on the baby sitter, but she sure was careless in not seatbelting the 6 year old boy.

    Also, as I posted, the Moron's (drunks) attorney will use this for his clients defense if there is any evidence that the seatbelt may have save the little boys life.

    But what do I know, I'm only a street cop, and have little experience working the phones and typing other officers reports for them.

    Why buckle up if it might save your life?

    Leave a comment:


  • Deputy Joe
    replied
    quote:
    Originally posted by kirch:
    He's being charged with homicide by use of a motor vehicle, and rightly so. Let him rot in prison, if you ask me.

    This guy was a defense attorney in Green Bay. He left law in 1996 to write a book about a shipwreck. He should have plenty of time to finish his book. He had priors in 90, 92, 97 and 99.

    This is disguisting. The babysitter shouldn't get charged with anything more than a misdemeanor....even though the kids should have been buckled up.

    If the child wouldn't have died, it would have been another slap on the wrist.

    Leave a comment:


  • InSane1
    replied


    She wont get charged, nor should she.

    Leave a comment:


  • Mr.Orange
    replied
    posted by Insane:
    quote:
    No. She shouldn't be charged. She was young and stupid and unfortunately an accident happened, which she really had no fault in. He fault was not buckling up a child. That is a petty misdemeanor. Fine give her a citation for that, but only a vengeful person would charge a teenager for that especially under those circumstances. There is discretion in the court system as well. They wouldn't charge her. It would never fly. How could they prove beyond a resonable doubt that the child would have lived had the child worn a seatbelt?

    We are talkign common sense and it annoys me that people are that vindictive and vengeful that they would ruin a teenagers life and continue to add to her pain and suffering after losing someone who she was responsible for. grrrrr.

    I believe in these two paragraphs, you may have answered your own questions.

    Is the babysitter partly responsible for the death of the child. Maybe. If the child was placed in a booster seat he may have survived. Also, most states if not all have accident reconstruction teams, and they could determine whether the child would have survived the crash if he was placed booster seat or seatbelted.
    Now could they cite her for this infraction, yes, could she be found at fault for this, yes, will the Drunken idiot and his lawyer use this as a defense, you betcha.

    Weird thing is, seat belts save lives.

    Leave a comment:


  • InSane1
    replied
    No. She shouldn't be charged. She was young and stupid and unfortunately an accident happened, which she really had no fault in. He fault was not buckling up a child. That is a petty misdemeanor. Fine give her a citation for that, but only a vengeful person would charge a teenager for that especially under those circumstances. There is discretion in the court system as well. They wouldn't charge her. It would never fly. How could they prove beyond a resonable doubt that the child would have lived had the child worn a seatbelt?

    We are talkign common sense and it annoys me that people are that vindictive and vengeful that they would ruin a teenagers life and continue to add to her pain and suffering after losing someone who she was responsible for. grrrrr.

    Leave a comment:


  • Bill R
    replied
    quote:
    Originally posted by Deputy757:
    quote:
    Originally posted by Bill R:
    The state is equally if not more responsible than the babysitter for allowing the drunk with 4 OWI convictions on the road.

    How is the state responsible if someone who isn't legally allowed to drive, drives?
    From Kirch:
    quote:
    So, other than the OWI part, he was driving legally.

    Leave a comment:


  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    quote:
    Originally posted by Bill R:
    The state is equally if not more responsible than the babysitter for allowing the drunk with 4 OWI convictions on the road.

    How is the state responsible if someone who isn't legally allowed to drive, drives? I think the babysitter is probably suffering enough. This is kind of like the pursuit scenario. "If the officer hadn't of been chasing him/her, he/she wouldn't have run and ended up in an accident". Nevermind the fact that the accident was actually caused by someone else.

    Leave a comment:


  • Shaky & Blue
    replied
    As one of those bloodthirsty photojournalists who show up at fatal accidents for the local news, I've covered more than my share of them. I hate them. I hate them even moreso since they are so often preventable if people would simply buckle themselves or their children into the car. Believe me when I tell you people that when you see me on the side of the road, I want to be there less than you want me there.

    Two years ago I covered a fatal in which a man, woman and child were in one of those little rag-top Geo SUVs, hit an icy patch of road and rolled. All three were ejected. The child was seriously injured but lived, but he was conscious as he sat in the road and watched his mother die with a broken neck. All because the parents were too lazy or stupid to buckle him, or themselves, into the vehicle. Children mimic their parents' behavior, so it's no big surprise that this kid didn't buckle up on his own.

    What I would hope for the case that started this thread is that the DA would charge the babysitter with something fairly light, then publicize the hell out of it and make it sound as menacing as possible. She made a mistake, and I don't see her conviction for this child's death as being just. However, if the publicity around a lighter charge will encourage even one family to buckle up their kids, it will be worth her brief period of public embarrassment.

    Maybe if those morons in the Geo had seen someone on the news charged for not buckling up, they would have thought twice about it and wouldn't have flown all over the road. It still would have been a frightening ordeal for them, but one that they would tell stories about as a family in the years to come.

    Leave a comment:


  • kirch
    replied
    quote:
    Why does he STILL have his car?



    Here in WI you can't take away someone's car for OWI offenses.

    In this particular case, after the guy's fourth offense he did some jail time and lost his license for 3 years. After the 3 years was up, they gave it back to him with severe restrictions. So, other than the OWI part, he was driving legally.

    Leave a comment:


  • Bill R
    replied
    The drunk is the criminal. Yes, the babysitter bears some responsibility but at most should be charged with the seatbelt violation. The state is equally if not more responsible than the babysitter for allowing the drunk with 4 OWI convictions on the road. The babysitter will have to live with her poor decision.

    Leave a comment:


  • Dave T
    replied
    Kirch,

    Here is another similar sad story.

    DUI Murder

    Leave a comment:


  • Joseph
    replied
    No maybe poor judgment but the criminal here is the guy with the DUI's. My 4 year old grandaughter can take off her own seatbelt and does often. I must repeatedly replace it.

    Leave a comment:


  • Oregon Mike
    replied
    Morally, I would say she should be punished with something that would keep her in jail for a while. Probably 30-90 days in my opinion. It was certainly reckless behavior, but she's not the one that caused the accident.

    From a legal standpoint, it gets tricky. I realize this didn't happen in Oregon, but I'll explain the options that would be available to a DA in Oregon if it did happen.

    Manslaughter I or II are long shots because they require that the actor "causes the death of another human being." She allowed the death to occur, but I wouldn't say that she caused it. Those are also Measure 11 crimes, which have madatory sentences of 10 years and 6 years, 3 months.

    Criminally negligent homicide is a C Felony and not a Measure 11 crime, so it might be a good choice. But once again it requires the actor to cause the death. I think that's out.

    Assault I and II are also Measure 11 crimes, but Assault III and IV are not. Assault III requires the use of a "deadly or dangerous weapon" to cause "serious physical injury." A car meets the definition of dangerous weapon, but it would be a jury's discretion to say whether the woman's car caused the death.

    Assault IV only requires that the actor recklessly causes physcial injury. It's an A Misdemeanor in this case, and I'd say it's a sure conviction.

    With the above statutes (I still realize this is not an Oregon case), the DA should probably threaten the Manslaughter or Assault II and accept a plea to Assault IV.

    It's a tragic case, indeed, but the drunk is the one that caused the accident. Oregon also has had a problem with multiple DUII offenders killing people in crashes. I'm not a big fan of new legislation, but I think it's about time to come down on these people. If we can't keep them from driving, we should keep them in prison.

    Mike

    Leave a comment:


  • Dave T
    replied
    Kirch

    quote:
    A) it's appropriate to charge her with a crime? [QUOTE]

    Absolutely - she was in violation of a legislatively adopted statute

    [QUOTE} B) any charge will be prosecuted? [QUOTE]

    Really depends upon your District Attorney - although in cases where children are killed or injured they are generally more inclined to prosecute all "at fault" parties. What the charge is would be based upon your local laws. I do not believe that she could be charged with anything above the failure to seatbelt. I doubt they could prove the elements of any serious charge (homicide)as they would have to prove intent and/or malice - they could try the depraved indifference but I think they might have a diffcult cast to make

    [Quote] C) there's any chance she'd be convicted?[/QB]

    I think if she is charged with the seat belt violation only she will plead guilty and avoid any court appearance

    This story is truely sad. Last month we convicted a habitual DWI offender with 2nd degree murder in the death of a 4 year old child. There are no winners - only losers.

    Leave a comment:

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