Sad little girl

[Mitzi]

We have some friends that have a 10 year old girl. They love her very much but treat her like she lives in a boot camp. Chores are to be done, NO EXCUSES FOR LATENESS. More and more is taken from her as she commits mistakes. Just because she left a dress on the floor, she can not watch TV til January 1, which means she misses all the Christmas specials.
Last night, I sat and talked to her for a bit and she said, "You know, Miss Mitzi, I have never sen Santa Claus." I said,"Mommy and Daddy have never taken you to see him?" She said, "There is never time.
This child is struggling so. She went from gifted, to academically talented to regular classes in months. I know the signs of depression when I see them.
So, today, Caroline and I are going to see Santa. Then, when the right moment comes up, I'm talking to her parents. I already told them, when they told her that the lights on the Chrismas tree will not come on til Christmas morning because of another infraction, "They are only little once. You are going to rue the day you treat her like a soldier". They both said, "She's half grown and knows the rules." I told them to come on over and see my house. Clothes don't always reach the hamper.
If, after I talk to them they keep up the same rotten attitude, I'm going to the guidance counselor at school. She is just so emotionally abused.

[Don]

Emotional abuse leaves far more scars than any other type of abuse. And it is the hardest to deal with. You have parents who are emotionally scared themselves, or they would not be acting in such a manner.

There is one hell of a big difference from "loving discipline" to abuse. You MUST have discipline in the home, however it must be appropriately dealt out, only when necessary. Expecting a ten year old to behave like an adult is juvenile in itself.

Good luck with this Mitzi, and if you need to, go to that counselor. But I must warn you, that this is the most difficult of all abusive patterns to overcome.

[Mitzi]

Don't I know it, Don. I was raised with emotional abuse most of my life. I was lucky with my husband. He got help and I now have the husband from heaven. But my Mother, that's a different story. I have to back her down all the time. She can just be plain mean and my childhood was hell on earth.
She knows that, when I go to visit, she gets thre strikes and I leave. That has happened one time. When she's mean, I say, "Strike one, Mother". She pushed me one year and I got up in the middle of Christmas dinner, said 'Strike Three" and we left. Last year, I only had to say "strike one".
This little girl is a very smart little girl. She speaks up, let me tell you. Her father actually said, in front of her, "We wanted a boy but we got her." She said, "That's not my fault, Daddy." If she HAD been a boy, man, it would have been so much worse. This guy is a small nerd that wants to look macho. He's the one I barked all the way in the house when he pulled a small gun out of his pocket outside and pointed it at a stop sign. He said, "What? You don't think I know about guns?" I said, "I know when you treat them like toys and try to impress people, people get killed, A**hole!"
Emotional abuse is SO hard to overcome for counselers and social workers. It's usually something mean said or done to a child. I know, I've lived it.

[Frank Booth]

[ 04-04-2003, 08:42 PM: Message edited by: Frank Booth ]

[InSane1]

Mitzi, I can't help but think there is more to this story. Do you think the little girl is exaggerating the circumstances? Have you been to her house? Are the christmas lights on? Are her parents at their witts end in trying to discipline? I had a hard time with my daughter around 9 years old.. and it is still going on. She thinks she knows all, and is very melodramatic when discussing things with others so that she gets pity from them. She was SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO bad that I finally decided I had to go to drastic measure. I took everything.... ALL HER TOYS records, stereo, tv, vcr EVERYTHING out of her room, except her bed and her clothes and told her that until I saw an improvement she wasn't getting any of it back. Guess what? IT WORKED. She started doing her homework and stopped sassing back at me and stopped getting into trouble REALLY quick.

SO, some parents may just find their own way to deal with their child. That age is an age that childrn begin to really test adults to see how far they can be pushed before anything is done. As for the Santa thing. Ahhh.... WHO CARES, its santa clause, there isnt no such thing. he's just some guy who helps commercialize Christmas. I admit I like some christmas stories, but first and foremost, It's about Christ and the children actually have to tell me the story of Jesus' birth before they open presents. How's that for strict. You should see what I do for EASTER..

I told the kids when they were old enough to understand.. (about 4 years old) there was no such thing as Santa Clause. No such thing as the easter bunny, no such thing as the tooth fairy and no such thing as the boogy man. Thats just something made up in stories and fairytales. I still let them enjoy all the activities of the holidays, but I'm Very clear about the meanings and significance of religious holidays and tell them that they should take whatever they can from the stories I tell them. I know that is pretty liberal, but thats just the kind of person I am.

I'm saying,.. who knows what is really going on, so don't go in confrontational.. go in with an open mind.

[Royal Dragon]

Mitzi, I can't help but think there is more to this story. Do you think the little girl is exaggerating the circumstances? Have you been to her house? Are the christmas lights on? Are her parents at their witts end in trying to discipline? I had a hard time with my daughter around 9 years old.. and it is still going on. "She thinks she knows all, and is very melodramatic when discussing things with others so that she gets pity from them. She was SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO bad that I finally decided I had to go to drastic measure. I took everything.... ALL HER TOYS records, stereo, tv, vcr EVERYTHING out of her room, except her bed and her clothes and told her that until I saw an improvement she wasn't getting any of it back. Guess what? IT WORKED. She started doing her homework and stopped sassing back at me and stopped getting into trouble REALLY quick."

Reply]
You know, I had some serious problems with my daugter about that same age. Life was hell in my house for about 2 years. lots of yelling, Spankings and writing assingnments grounding from gymnastics, taking toys, jewlery and pets away from her. Finnaly, when she had nothing but misery she realised that staring fights with me over doing homework, sassing teachers, NOT doing work in school to begin with and throwing temper tantrums and breaking things was not the way to be happy. She eventually leanred that doing things right the first time (as in not intentionally blowing things off as oppose to legitimate mistakes) was easier than fighting us.

Now, she is once again a striat A studnet (Well, almost, but she made the honor roll), adn does her work with few problems, and life is fun again at our home.

I think it's a phase she went through durig the divorce as her mom really hurt her during that. Getting her back to her normal self was a night mare, and included quite a bit of counseling for "MY" stress as well as hers.

Some kids just need a firm hand, that's all. You have to know when to be firm and when to be soft, and sometimes you need to be REALLY hard. Knowing when to be what, is the hardest thing about being a parent.

[Mitzi]

I am well aware of the exact circunstances here. I have known this child since she was born and know her parents well. She is a good little girl, well behaved when we go out. Her parents had decided not to have children and she was a surprise when they had been maried 17 years.
They are nice people but extremely discliplined in EVERYTHING they do. Life is like a boot camp. That house is SPOTLESS and when you visit, you would never have ever known a child lived there.
If her toys are not picked up at a certain time,not only are they thrown away, she must stand and watch the gargage truck drive away with them.
She is a very good student but MUST bring home straight A's.
I understand people who don't let their children believe in Santa Claus. But I let my son. He also believed in Christ and still does. He is 26 and stopped believeing in Santa last year.
Seriously, I see nothing wrong with not wanting your child to believe in Santa or the Easter Bunny. But that doesn't make parents like me who allowed her child to believe wrong either. It's a personal choice.
He was raised to know of Baby Jesus and Christ and is still a church goer as are we all. But he believed in the fun of Santa and there isn't anything wrong with that. Everyone has an opinion and no ones opinion is right or wrong.

[InSane1]

DId I mention my dad would wake me and my sister up at 530 am EVERYDAY to wash the floors and do other chores before school. EVERYDAY. I mean the kitchen, bathroom and pantry floor and vaccuming the dining room, living room and bedrooms. THEN after we did the chores we would have to listen to bible study tapes until it was time to get ready for school or the tapes were over. HE HAD THE BIBLE ON TAPE! We got lucky if he didn't flip the tape.

I still think there is more to that story. You are on teh outside looking in. I think that if you were on the inside looking out, things might be different. And if you knew them to be this way for years... why all of the sudden now? Why didn't you ask them/talk to them sooner?

I'm just being devils advocate Mitzi. Im a curious george.

[Frank Booth]

[ 04-04-2003, 08:42 PM: Message edited by: Frank Booth ]

[wonderwoman]

quote:

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Originally posted by Frank Booth:
[QUOTE]I wish my kids had never seen Santa Claus. They know who Santa is, but not Jesus (an overstatement, but not by much). My wife starts CHRISTmas shopping in June, and sends out cards that say "Happy Holidays" with no mention of CHRISTmas.

---

Sometimes you say great things Frank!

[Mitzi]

I know of what I speak with this child. I have known her and her parents since she was born and yes, I have had words with them over the way she is treated. I KNOW emotional abuse when I see it. I have been at their house frequently and our friendship has suffered BECAUSE of the way she is treated. I have discussed this with them and their attitude is she must learn her lessons early in life. We used to see a lot of them but curtailed our visits because of the way they are to her. My concern is they seem to be getting worse. I talked to her and asked if she was ever hit and she said no. She's beyond her years in age. She has to be. They don't want a child. They want a little adult that is to be seen and not heard. A guidance counselor can at least talk to her then call them in and talk to them. And yes, Insane, I feel guilty for not going sooner. But my huband is one of those "don't get involved" people and it was going to cause trouble here at home. I told him now he can be mad but she needs help and I hope I can help.
I never play down emotional abuse, It hurts just as much as a punch in the face.
I had kind of a life like yours, Insane. I was up at 6:30, at school all day, came home to ALL the housework, then had an 8 hour babysitting job. I got in at 1 am on a school night. My babysitting money was taken as "rent" for them letting me live in their house.
Did it make me toughen up? Maybe. But it also made me hate my parents. I'm only just now speaking to my parents because of their age...and they have not changed. I let them get to know their grandson and they were lucky I did that.
My brother has been gone over 20 years. We have no idea where he is. My parents saw their three kids when they were small a few times but then my brother left with his family and refuses to see my parents. My parents have never seen their 2 great grandchilden.
I will always watch Caroline. I think her parents realize that. But school authorities getting involved may catch her parents atention better then I can.

[ 12-07-2002, 09:46 PM: Message edited by: Mitzi ]

[Sparky]

mitzi, the school counselors have nothing to do with what happens at home. At least not in any state that I am aware of.

If you are so convinced that this girl is being negected or abused, then call DHS and make a report.

[Mitzi]

When I taught school, back in the caveman era, they could get social workers involved. If they can't do anything, then I'l have them steer me in the right direction. It will be tough though. Even physically abused children love their parents and won't "tell" on them.
Emotional abuse, like Don said, is the most difficult to overcome and the most difficut to prove. Caroline is a smart child and I think she might just be honest with any counselor who talked to them. But I just wonder how much THEY can do. She is not negelected, she just is expected to be perfect. Her mother bought her a 200$ doll for Christmas (which is outrageous) but I know her. She won't hesitate to throw it away if Caroline leaves it in the wrong place.
Don't get me wrong. These parents love their child. They just expect too out of her. They don't really know how to be parents. To them, doll like that is love when Caroline would settle for hugs and being a child.

[ 12-07-2002, 10:41 PM: Message edited by: Mitzi ]

[InSane1]

They must not be THAT bad if they are letting you take her to go see Santa Clause.....

They do know your plans.... Riiiiiiiight?

[Frank Booth]

[ 04-04-2003, 08:42 PM: Message edited by: Frank Booth ]