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  • Need help with questions!!

    Ok, there's this junior at school who thinks he knows absolutely everything there is to know in the world and that what he says goes (basically, he took my job ) So anyways, i need some help with a few questions. If you could answer or direct me to an answer I would be appreciative!!

    1. If a police officer has some reasonable idea that an individual has committed a crime, and stops them and asks for ID and the person refuses, can the cop arrest the person.

    2. Is a police officer, at any level, (local, county, state, federal)provided he has proper credentials with him, allowed to carry his weapon on a plane after informing the pilot of who he is. (And this should probably be answered with a frame of thought before Sept. 11th)

    3. (and before I start on this one, i know this will anger some of you, and just remember, i am on your side.) Did the officers who shot Diallo get any punishment like manslaughter and where they cleared of their actions?? This guy says that they should be held accountable for their actions because they made a mistake and must thus accept something like manslaughter. What he doesn't get is that the rules, in a way, apply differently to police officers because of the job they fulfill. Everyday, they deal with people who are armed or quite possibly could be armed, and to be in a dark alley and tell someone to freeze, they move their arm towards you with a dark object in their hands, and he gets shot, is an accident in my mind but the officers should not be charged with any crime other than fulfilling their duty and because of someone elses failure to follow explicit orders, they shoot him.


    Tex
    KD5HQD

  • #2
    1) Depends on what state your in.

    2) Only Federal officers can I believe.

    3) They were found not guilty.

    Comment


    • #3
      1. As a general rule, not for simply refusing to show identification. It will be greatly dependant on how much of a “reasonable idea” the officer has. Reasonable suspicion is enough to stop; probable cause is required for arrest. I would add that “attempting to hide his identity from investigating officers” would only INCREASE PC

      2. Except for the Feds, it would be dependant on the pleasure of the airline. They will often work with you if working or transporting a prisoner, but overall they are (from what I’ve read) pretty liberal as they are afraid of them.

      3. You are correct on Diallo. Although the general public (fed by a slanted media and movie stereotypes and with no direct knowledge of the specific law, case law, departmental policy, etc, just “what they’ve heard&#8221 will disagree, to prove a crime, you must prove criminal intent.

      Even though it is not politically correct to mention this, any criminal charges are useless at the outset. They would have had to prove they went to work that day with the specific intent to murder someone. Even if THEY HAD (and I’m talking Jesse Jackson dreamland here) actually proving it beyond a reasonable doubt would be tough as all get out in court. Just like Cincinnati, where I told everyone the officer would be acquitted (UNLESS the jury was swayed by political pressure, which thank God, they weren’t.) just because a person (REGARDLESS of race) is shot by police, and they don’t “agree” with it, it does NOT rise to the level of criminal wrongdoing. It is just that simple, but many special interest groups and minorities can’t accept that-they can however accept someone always running from the police and always resisting arrest.

      They just can’t get it! Whether they ultimately had a gun or not is IRRELEVANT. The law only says that you must have reasonable belief you are in danger of being killed or seriously injured. It is often erroneously believed that:

      They must have a gun,
      That they have to shoot first, (Heck-we can even shoot first! )
      We must see the gun first,
      That someone with a knife is only a “threat” within arms length
      Blahblahblah

      Any of these would handicap us to the point of dying or being maimed unnecessarily.

      The law does not say that future investigation MUST find that they actually had a gun, and if they don’t your “call” was wrong and you were then outside the law (although I think that’s what they’re saying they think it should be.) I would HOPE that any officer in this country WOULD feel threatened when running a known criminal with numerous assault convictions into an alley where he reaches into his clothing quickly. I HOPE these vocal special interest group witch-hunts don’t frighten our officers into dying. The best way to prevent these tragedies is not to run from the police, and do not make sudden moves around LE in tense situations.
      People have more fun than anybody.

      Comment


      • #4
        In Nevada, yes we can arrest a person who refuses to identify themselves if they are a suspect in a crime. Is spelled out specifically in our state statutes.

        2) Discretion of the airline and only on business that I've been aware off. On extraditions I've been alowed to carry one.

        3) Don't even get me started .

        Comment


        • #5
          Only agents from certain federal agencies can carry aboard airline without restriction. I believe these agencies are FBI, Marshals, Civil Aviation Security Service, and another that I don't recall. In reality, most federal agents are allowed to carry nationwide.

          As for local and state officers, the officer must have attended a fairly brief FAA flying-while-armed class. They must also have an actual need to have a weapon on their person. This may include executive protection, prisoner transport, or an immediate deployment upon disembarking.

          Regarding Diallo, suggest your friend consider this scenario. He's driving down the street and obseerves a pedestrian approach a crosswalk. The ped stops at curbside, apparently intending to allow your friend to pass. Your knowledgable friend, seeing the pedestrian yield, continues to drive at a safe and prudent speed. As your friend enters the crosswalk, the ped steps off the curb in front of your friend's car. The ped is struck and killed by your friend.

          If your pal is ready to spend a few years in the custody of the state for those hypothetical decisions, maybe he has a hypothetical right to judge those poor cops.

          Regarding the officer's right to demand ID, suggest to your bright fellow student thathe just refuse to provide it the next time he's gets jacked up by the po-po. While I'm unfamiliar with Texas statues on this subject, his refusal would give him the opportunity to gain first-hand expertise.

          Be safe.
          John from Maryland

          Comment


          • #6
            Thank you all. This has been very helpful. Believe me, you guys and gals would love to have conversations with this guy. He is the know all end all on all topics, even police ones, so basically, he's a liberal.


            Tex
            KD5HQD

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by kd5hqd:
              He is the know all end all on all topics, even police ones, so basically, he's a liberal.


              Tex
              KD5HQD


              Hey Kyle, howcome you are signing "Tex" to your posts now????? I live in Colorado, but you don't see "Colo" at the end of my posts do ya!
              6P1 (retired)

              Comment


              • #8
                Federal Authority:

                1. "Reasonable idea"? If you mean I have reasonable suspicion that this person has committed a crime then chances are very good that I will develop probable cause to arrest him with or without him showing me his ID. If he’s walking down the street minding his own business and I demand to see his ID (absent suspicion to detain him) and he refuses, no I can’t arrest him.

                2. ALL federal law enforcement officers (on or off duty) are authorized to carry their firearms aboard airlines. Federal law doesn't grant FBI and Marshals different authority concerning carrying firearms.

                TITLE 14--AERONAUTICS AND SPACE
                CHAPTER I--FEDERAL AVIATION ADMINISTRATION, DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION
                PART 108--AIRPLANE OPERATOR SECURITY--Table of Contents
                Sec. 108.11 Carriage of weapons.
                (a) No certificate holder required to conduct screening under a security program may permit any person to have, nor may any person have, on or about his or her person or property, a deadly or dangerous weapon,
                either concealed or unconcealed, accessible to him or her while aboard an airplane for which screening is required unless:
                (1) The person having the weapon is--
                (i) An official or employee of the United States, or a State or political subdivision of a State, or of a municipality who is authorized by his or her agency to have the weapon;.....(ii) When the armed person is other than an employee or official of the United States, that there is a need for the weapon to be accessible to the armed person in connection with the performance of that person's duty from the time he or she would otherwise check it in accordance with
                paragraph (d) of this section until the time it would be returned to him or her after deplaning.

                3. See Sgt. Dave's response to #3

                Comment


                • #9
                  1. See above
                  2. No
                  3. Read this and tell me if they should have been charged at all: I say "no": http://www.mwarrior.com/nypd4/the_diallo_shooting.htm

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Here is Texas law regarding question #1. The other fine folks here pretty much covered the rest.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Didn't I tell you Don? The kids all call me Tex at my school because I'm from Texas and wear my big cowboy boots everyday to school. I love it!!


                      Tex
                      KD5HQD

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        TCSD, thanks for that link. That was very helpful and I'm going to have that guy read it.


                        Tex
                        KD5HQD

                        Comment

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