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  • P_B_J
    replied
    Originally posted by idsman75
    P_B_J -- The Army (and especially the Military Police Corps) is a rapidly-changing and evolving organization. The MP Corps of today is nothing like it was, say, 10 years ago. I talk to a lot of people who "been there and done that" a decade ago who know everything about the Army because they "been there and done that" about a decade ago. Their actual grasp of the reality of today's Army is pretty slim.

    I too am an MP. I'm not going to rehash old stories unless someone really NEEDS examples but what I HAVE done is a far cry from patrolling school zones for litterbugs.
    You've missed my point. Some of the COPS who have responded to you have military police experience, too. Though you call it "antiquated," it's in their experience base, nonetheless. Unless I missed something in your post, you are an MP--with no civilian LE experience. You can't possibly make the comparisons that they have, because you lack the experience.


    And as an aside: I'm sure every industry can claim that it's an evolving organization. I've been a cop for two decades. Civilian law enforcement has changed dramatically, too. The Army hasn't got the corner on that market.

    There's my 2
    Last edited by P_B_J; 04-11-2005, 06:13 AM.

    Leave a comment:


  • idsman75
    replied
    P_B_J -- The Army (and especially the Military Police Corps) is a rapidly-changing and evolving organization. The MP Corps of today is nothing like it was, say, 10 years ago. I talk to a lot of people who "been there and done that" a decade ago who know everything about the Army because they "been there and done that" about a decade ago. Their actual grasp of the reality of today's Army is pretty slim.

    I too am an MP. I'm not going to rehash old stories unless someone really NEEDS examples but what I HAVE done is a far cry from patrolling school zones for litterbugs. I have also done airbase security (having "earned" the Air Force Security Police Function Badge) under the command of an Air Force Major as a member of a Joint Task Force and that WAS more like looking for litterbugs and "speeders in school zones".

    Unless someone has served in the MP Corps within the last 5 years there is probably very little grasp of the realities involved in performing MP duties in the Army.

    Pardon my skepticism but I have been in many courthouses and I have been in many police departments and have read and examined MANY civilian LE matters in the course of the last few years and have grown cynical of the moral and ethical climate of the LE and judicial system where I currently live. I have also been at the receiving end of that declining ethical climate (and at the business end of a SIG P-226) so I am probably jaded as well. However, the broad brush with which the MP Corps has been painted and is often painted by those that have "been there and done that" 10+ years ago is quite sickening. The Coast Guard is not the only service that conducts drug raids and siezures.

    With regards to the initial topic.....

    The MP Corps operates under a different set of rules with regards to some of our precious Ammendments. The official schoolhouse training is a bit antiquated and the follow-up training while serving on a military installation is hardly uniform across-the-board. Each state's laws with regards to use-of-force and similar crucial issues impact training at Academy level as do the rulings of the state's court system. Sworn LEO's need to be trained in a manner that will allow them to affect LE activities/arrests/etc in such a way that they will pass the scrutiny of the courts that adjudicate their cases.

    I know of at least one installation (Fort Drum) that was moving towards a national certification process but I am not sure if it was seen through to completion after 9/11 due to drastic changes in SOP and doctrine.

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  • USAcop
    replied
    Getting through the academy is the easy part.

    There are alot of departments that lose around 50% of people in the FTO program. Good luck.

    Leave a comment:


  • P_B_J
    replied
    Originally posted by idsman75
    Oh my g*d I can't believe the ingorance spewing forth from the mouth of LEO's around here. Apparently everyone's impression of what Army MP's do stems from a total lack of experience and understanding.

    Let's see here. As an Army MP I've done a whole hell of a lot more than "patrol the neighborhood" looking for DUI's and responding to disputes. I guess my impression of civilian LEO's has been reinforced right here. "We actually go out into the world and conduct law enforcement." You've got the ego of a 19-year-old Marine.
    I guess you're entitled to your opinion. But, this being your first post, I doubt you'll make a lot of friends or gather a lot of support. Some of the "ignorant" LEO's you are judging have done both. (I, too, was an MP.) They are speaking from a foundation of experience.

    TACTEAM: I feel your pain. I changed agencies a number of years back. I had active certifications in the exact same methods that the new agency was teaching. Didn't matter. I had to sit through all those classes again. It's just a fact of life. The agency is covering its bases to prevent/discourage lawsuits by documenting the exact training they have provided you (and each of their employees) with. I know it sucks, but get used to it. I've got 24 years in...I still sit through all the same in-service classes I did when I was a rookie. Maybe it isn't right, but it's the way it is.

    Leave a comment:


  • idsman75
    replied
    Originally posted by TacTeamSouth
    IM not in the U.S. Army, Im with the U.S. Coast Guard and Its totally different. We dont handle on base stuff. We actually go out in the world and conduct law enforcement. The reason I wrote this is because I want to go to the FHP and DOnt want the 6 month academy. Where I come from it was only 16 weeks. I guess I will do what I have to do either way.
    Oh my g*d I can't believe the ingorance spewing forth from the mouth of LEO's around here. Apparently everyone's impression of what Army MP's do stems from a total lack of experience and understanding.

    Let's see here. As an Army MP I've done a whole hell of a lot more than "patrol the neighborhood" looking for DUI's and responding to disputes. I guess my impression of civilian LEO's has been reinforced right here. "We actually go out into the world and conduct law enforcement." You've got the ego of a 19-year-old Marine.

    Leave a comment:


  • squad51
    replied
    five years of Military Police (must be 5 of law enforcement not security) will allow you take the resiprcity test here in MN. I thought that the USAF Security Forces training when it came to law enforcement was right on with current teaching however it is very very short, they depend alot on base FT to take up the slack.

    Leave a comment:


  • co911
    replied
    "You're going to find out that maritime law enforcement has virtually nothing to do with being a street cop."

    I couldn't agree more with this comment.

    The military and civilian law enforcement have totally different goals, policies and procedures. Personally I think it is wrong that any state gives lateral status to military police officers. I talk to guys on both sides and it's easy to see who the real cops are. No offense intended to the folks in the armed forces.

    Leave a comment:


  • TacTeamSouth
    Guest replied
    Originally posted by Delta784
    No one WANTS to go through the police academy, but it's a right of passage that you must get through if you want to earn your badge. Even if you did find a way around it, trust me, you'd catch a lot of **** from your co-workers for being a slacker.

    The reason that most state police/highway patrol academies are longer is that they can teach you the specifics that are unique for that agency. For example, city & town police in MA go through a "generic" academy that might have 10 different agencies represented in a class. They don't teach you such things as what forms to fill out when you make an arrest, because each agency is different (although how to write a report is taught). After graduation, the trainee officers can expect another 3-4 weeks classroom instruction at their PD on policies and procedure, before the 8-week FTO program.

    BTW...if you think you're going "out in the world", you're being a bit naive. You're going to find out that maritime law enforcement has virtually nothing to do with being a street cop.
    As stated before, I was a street cop for three years, I know what its like on both sides. I have no problem going to another academy, I just want to get my final career going and get some time behind me.

    Leave a comment:


  • Delta784
    replied
    Originally posted by TacTeamSouth
    IM not in the U.S. Army, Im with the U.S. Coast Guard and Its totally different. We dont handle on base stuff. We actually go out in the world and conduct law enforcement. The reason I wrote this is because I want to go to the FHP and DOnt want the 6 month academy. Where I come from it was only 16 weeks. I guess I will do what I have to do either way.
    No one WANTS to go through the police academy, but it's a right of passage that you must get through if you want to earn your badge. Even if you did find a way around it, trust me, you'd catch a lot of **** from your co-workers for being a slacker.

    The reason that most state police/highway patrol academies are longer is that they can teach you the specifics that are unique for that agency. For example, city & town police in MA go through a "generic" academy that might have 10 different agencies represented in a class. They don't teach you such things as what forms to fill out when you make an arrest, because each agency is different (although how to write a report is taught). After graduation, the trainee officers can expect another 3-4 weeks classroom instruction at their PD on policies and procedure, before the 8-week FTO program.

    BTW...if you think you're going "out in the world", you're being a bit naive. You're going to find out that maritime law enforcement has virtually nothing to do with being a street cop.

    Leave a comment:


  • ftlaudcop
    replied
    we have a guy that was a airforce police....as compared to
    airforce security....he inquired about the comparative compliance
    and was allowed to do so.

    I am sure the coast guard, in their quasi-military state has the same
    training equal to that " civillian " and a comparative compliance
    course would be more than likely.

    fhp...you'd have to contact them for more up to date info...

    certain periods of time they are taking certified police and going thru


    a short in house academy " how F.H.P." does things .

    other times...no matter who ya are, yr goingthru their gung ho academy.

    in any event , best of luck in sunny fla

    www.schackdaddy.com

    Leave a comment:


  • sob153
    replied
    Originally posted by TacTeamSouth
    IM not in the U.S. Army, Im with the U.S. Coast Guard and Its totally different. We dont handle on base stuff. We actually go out in the world and conduct law enforcement. The reason I wrote this is because I want to go to the FHP and DOnt want the 6 month academy. Where I come from it was only 16 weeks. I guess I will do what I have to do either way.
    You didn

    Leave a comment:


  • TacTeamSouth
    Guest replied
    Originally posted by sob153
    MPs are all diferent. I have no idea what they do other than patrol around a base and respond to disputes outside the base involving the enlisted. I didn't even know they had a SWAT team. On a STATE Level, I know that some states will accept other agencies certs, my example is FLORIDA. Although I have FEDERAL TRAINING FLORIDA will accept it and all I have to do is take a 2 or 3 week course in Florida laws. When I take the course.. I will become FLORIDA STATE CERTIFIED and can apply to any agency and get hired without going to an academy....however there is still FTO but thats another story... can any of you FL officers give me an amen
    IM not in the U.S. Army, Im with the U.S. Coast Guard and Its totally different. We dont handle on base stuff. We actually go out in the world and conduct law enforcement. The reason I wrote this is because I want to go to the FHP and DOnt want the 6 month academy. Where I come from it was only 16 weeks. I guess I will do what I have to do either way.

    Leave a comment:


  • Evan
    replied
    With my past 14yrs in the Army, I have noticed that the type of training that MP's get is relly based on what the "hot" topic or issues are for the area. For example when I was stationed up in Alaska, the big two were domestic violence and DUI. So the MP's in Alaska were very well trained and versed in D/V and DUI. Now the MP's at Fort Carson, Colo. are very well trained at driving around, drinking coffee and soda and giving out parking and speeding citations, as far as I have seen so far. Due to the OIF deployments a large part of MP's have been replaced by D.A. (Department of the Army) Civilian Police officers.
    It's just best to use what the Army teaches you as a baseline or guide and then forget the rest.

    Leave a comment:


  • Larry's Angel
    replied
    Originally posted by sob153
    MPs are all diferent. I have no idea what they do other than patrol around a base and respond to disputes outside the base involving the enlisted. I didn't even know they had a SWAT team. On a STATE Level, I know that some states will accept other agencies certs, my example is FLORIDA. Although I have FEDERAL TRAINING FLORIDA will accept it and all I have to do is take a 2 or 3 week course in Florida laws. When I take the course.. I will become FLORIDA STATE CERTIFIED and can apply to any agency and get hired without going to an academy....however there is still FTO but thats another story... can any of you FL officers give me an amen
    I concur.

    I thought that I knew some officers here (in Florida) that due to their military police experience only had to go through the 2 week course and take the certification exam and were good to go. Have you checked into that? If I were you I'd ask around at different academies.

    Leave a comment:


  • Delta784
    replied
    I don't know what it's like now, but when I went through the US Army MP School, the law enforcement training was pathetically outdated. As a matter of fact, the instructor we had for handcuffing was a reservist on TDY who was a San Bernadino (CA) Deputy Sheriff. After he showed us the way the school wanted and we passed the test, he then showed us the correct way to do it.

    Leave a comment:

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