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  • #16
    Well, I have to admit I agree with Incomp. He should be charged harshly. California law does, I believe, allow a charge of Second Degree Murder for DUI Death when it can be shown that the negligence displayed was so extreme it amounted to murder. It is usually reserved for chronic drunks who have several previous DUI convictions.

    And BTW...I am a veteran cop and believe he should be punished more harshly because he is a cop. We are, and should be, held to a higher standard of conduct. Like or not (and I understand the arguments against it), that is the way it is. He was well aware, more than most anyone else, of the hazards of drinking and driving. Time to pay the piper.

    This may make me unpopular with some of my peers, but I am not one to withhold a (correct) opinion.
    Government is not the solution to our problem; government is the problem. - Ronald Reagan

    I don't think It'll happen in the US because we don't trust our government. We are a country of skeptics, raised by skeptics, founded by skeptics. - Amaroq

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    • #17
      Originally posted by retired:
      Incompetent,

      Try looking up the legal definition of murder and then maybe you will understand. There are degrees of punishment for the various degrees of violations of law. You don't send someone to state prison for petty theft like you would for armed robbery.

      Maybe because this guy is a cop you think he should be punished more harshly?

      Retired
      Amen brother, he should he has a higher responsibility than a normal citizen. He is suppose to uphold the law not break it in such a outlandish way!!!!!!!!

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      • #18
        Originally posted by retired:
        Incompetent,

        Try looking up the legal definition of murder and then maybe you will understand. There are degrees of punishment for the various degrees of violations of law. You don't send someone to state prison for petty theft like you would for armed robbery.

        Maybe because this guy is a cop you think he should be punished more harshly?

        Retired
        No, I think that because he drank and drove, he should be harsly punished.

        though your last sentence does hold merit. Police Officers should have higher moral standards than the people they are charged to "protect & serve." That should be a police officer's mantra on and off duty. Obviously that wasn't the case for this cop.
        Only two things are infinite-the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not so sure about the universe. -Albert Einstein

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        • #19
          I guess cops will be people too.

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          • #20
            Vbrenner,

            We have a difference of opinion about cops deserving a more severe penalty because of their occupation. I disagree with you, but we all have our own opinions and you are entitled to yours as I am entitled to mine.

            Retired
            Retired

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            • #21
              As LEO's, yes, we SHOULD know right from wrong, and yes, we SHOULD be of higher moral character, but in the grander scheme of things, we're humans, subject to the same human temptations and problems as everyone else.

              Do I think they should get a tougher penalty? No, because in the long run they'll end up losing more than Average Joe because they could(and most likely will)lse their jobs and possibly even their certificate. Not to mention the neverending press on their arrest and trial.

              I don't condone DUI in any circumstances. I have less tolerance for that than anything else. I just wish that when an LEO screws up, he would be judged as a person first and foremost because at that point, in my eyes, he's no longer a cop.

              [ 08-11-2001: Message edited by: FLLawdog ]

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              • #22
                FlLawdog, I couldn't agree more. He deserves no more punishment then the next guy.

                Unfortunatly the punishment sometimes is not severe enough. Thats why there is so many people with more than one DUI. And still driving.

                I also think that being a police officer is just a job. ( A great job) But none the less still a job. Officers need to be human first then officers. People are under the mistaken belief that officers are the ones who make the laws. Not true. They just enforce them. So when cops get caught doing something bad or illegal. The press and public is the first to jump in and say fry them. This cop messed up and will have to pay the price but i think his punishment should be the same as any ordinary persons punishment not any harsher.
                "To each his own"

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                • #23
                  Do cops deserve harsher criminal sanctions than most people, NO!!!!

                  We are obligated to follow the same laws we uphold, when we screw up why should we be held to a higher level of accountability than a non LEO who breaks the same laws?

                  Heres one for you, how about lawyers, they know how to interpret our laws better than anyone , why dont we hold them to a higher degree of accountability every time they screw up? It's the same logic.

                  Ok wait a second I have a better idea, lets hold our elected officials to a higher standard than the rest of us, hell they created the laws that attorneys and judges have to interprit and cops have to uphold. They should be held to an even higher standard than the rest of us.

                  Now for the real problem, if you hold me to a higher degree of accountability and impose a harsher punishment on me then you would on the average joe, do you honestly think I am going to uphold the laws that are designed to protect us all?

                  Now dont assume that I am in favor of letting the above mentioned NY cop off because he was a cop. All I am saying is this, judge him as you would judge anyone else. If an accountant did this and got 50 years then the cop who did it deserves the same 50 years, but he doesnt deserve and extra 50 because he was a cop.

                  Last time I checked the lady holding the scales of justice was blindfolded, that blindfold is their for a reason. So EVERYONE recieves equal treatment under the law!

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                  • #24
                    INTENT =
                    He intended to buy the alcohol
                    He intended to open it up
                    He intended to consume it
                    He intended not to stop consuming it
                    He intended to find his car keys
                    He intended to start the car
                    He intended to put it it drive
                    He intended to drive off

                    He intended not to kill Three people

                    They intended not to die

                    Get my drift?

                    Be Safe,
                    Ranger

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                    • #25
                      Get my drift?

                      No actually I dont. Please explain it for me.

                      The intentions of the officer are not in question, he commmitted a crime and deserves to be punished to the fullest extent of the law. My point is that he deserves to be judged by the same standard as everyone else, no more, no less.

                      His status as an officer should have no impact on the sanctions that he will face. View his actions as you would anyone elses, than let the court system pass judgement on him as would be done to anyone else.

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                      • #26
                        He intended not to kill Three people
                        That's the difference...he DIDN'T intend to kill three people. The rest I agree with, but to support a charge of murder over manslaughter you have to have intent to commit the murder. He didn't, it isn't.

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                        • #27
                          Ranger,

                          No, I don't get your drift either.

                          Retired
                          Retired

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                          • #28
                            Alot of good points have been made. SpecOps had a real good one about the lawyers and politicians, who also seem to weasel their way out of trouble. Personally, I think this guy Gray should be judged like anyone one else would be in this situation. What he did is sickening, even more so because he is a cop and that affects every police officer nationwide. But Gray and the N.Y.P.D. have already been hung out to dry in the media.

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                            • #29
                              Hey guys,

                              I wanted to post a reply on the remarks being made.

                              First and formost, the term equality under the law ring a bell?

                              While I deplore the incident, dragging the ex-police officer to the townhouse square and lynching him to the oak tree sort of sounds... well unjustified don't 'cha think?

                              I think that every D.U.I ought to have AND serve stiffer punishments, but until our law makers can arrive at that decision he should get the same treatment in the courtroom as any other person.

                              It's what we hit the streets to insure happens. While his awarness of the situation may have been a little more it doesn't excuse others from getting the same. How many hours a week does each and every individual get fed the "Don't drink and drive" sermon.

                              How many of those same individuals finish off the beer they are drinking that evening and then climb into the drivers seat of a vehicle?

                              Being more informed is a myth. Facing harsher judgement is ridiculus. Not to mention unfair.

                              He has to live with the voices of those people in his head for the rest of his life.

                              That badge on his chest did not make it any more horrible than the local town drunk doing the same thing.

                              It didn't qualify him for any extra attention either...

                              Justice... remember?

                              LEO's qualify for it also...

                              [ 08-11-2001: Message edited by: David ]
                              Take your hands off the trunk of the car and I'll make your Birth Certificate just another worthless document!!

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                David...excellent points!

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