This Disturbs Me.

[ToledoExplorer05]

As I said, I am an Explorer, and on one of my Explorer boards a fellow Explorer asked a simple question. That's not what disturbed me, what disturbed me was some of the answers given to him by other Explorers. Look at this thread, I want your opinion.

http://www.elmhurstdesign.com/pe/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=253

[p01ic3m4n]

for one, an officer is not an explorer's partner. an explorer is nothing more than an observer who might get to do some hands on if the situation is safe enough in the officer's opinion.

it will do them no good to have two wounded individuals. when i have a ride-along, first and foremost, i show them how to use the radio in case an emergency call needs to be made. i show them how to operate the camera and explain to them the benefits of being a good witness. i make sure they know where and how to access the shotgun. i also tell them to stay put. you only use that weapon or get out of the car if YOUR life depends on it; don't worry about mine.

if you get out of the car and get involved, you could wind up seriously hurt or dead. it's hard to get a suspect description for two deceased people.

there was a story i read in a paper about a sheriff and his 19 y/o son who were riding together. i don't remember the entire situation, but if i recall, the son tried to get in on it and both of them were killed.

[Delta_V]

quote:

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Originally posted by p01ic3m4n:
there was a story i read in a paper about a sheriff and his 19 y/o son who were riding together. i don't remember the entire situation, but if i recall, the son tried to get in on it and both of them were killed.

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Would you really expect someone's own adult son to sit idly by and watch his own father get beat to death without trying to help in some way? A person who would do that doesn't seem like much of a son to me.

[ToledoExplorer05]

I agree with you, p01ic3m4n. One thing about those forums that bothers me is what you just said. They want special units and all this, but none of us are cops. There are days I would like to yell that in their ears. I hope to never be in a shoot out, or a high speed chase if I become a cop. That is not the reason I want to join. I am not James Bond.

But as I said there, I have never been in that bad of a cituation, and with alittle luck, wont be. So I cant say for sure what I would do. But I do know there are other ways of stopping a fight then to yank out the old twelve gauge. The best thing an Explorer could ever do, is call for backup.

[ 11-21-2002, 04:06 PM: Message edited by: ToledoExplorer05 ]

[p01ic3m4n]

quote:

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Originally posted by PatrickM98:
Would you really expect someone's own adult son to sit idly by and watch his own father get beat to death without trying to help in some way? A person who would do that doesn't seem like much of a son to me.

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A: i was using that as an example.
B: ask the mother/wife.
C: i agree with you, kind of.

i believe they were both shot.

[ 11-21-2002, 04:12 PM: Message edited by: p01ic3m4n ]

[OfcMikey]

If someone is not willing to intervene in a life and death situation, then they need to reconsider what career they are thinking about going into.

I was asked on my oral board, what I would do if I saw a cop getting his *** kicked?
I told them I would intervene on his behalf and do what needed to be done. (*** kicking would be done)
One of the oral board members said, "Would you consider calling help for the officer?"
I said, "Oh, yah that too."
They laughed.

Frankly, I work with enough cowards. Without teaching Explorers to be cowards too.
Sometimes you have to violate a rule, to do the right thing.

[p01ic3m4n]

quote:

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Originally posted by 10mmMikey:

Sometimes you have to violate a rule, to do the right thing.

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if you ended up coming out with a good beating, but your explorer wound up dead, would you consider that the right thing?

when i drove a CV, i had explorers ride with me. i only had one rule; do exactly what i say when i say it. if i tell you to stay in the car, unless your life depends on it, do not get out. most of the explorers i had with me were gung ho 15-18 y/o. they were eager to get involved. they do their training in our cars so they know how all the equipment works, etc. i wanted them, and let them, get exposed to as much as possible, but what i don't want is for them to come running into a problem at the first sign of trouble. i'm with anyone in that if i'm in a fight for life, give a brotha a hand, but i'll tell you to come help me if i need it. if it's too dangerous for you to get into, then i'm sure not going to put you in that situation.

i know what it's like to be in an ***-whooping contest with a radio that won't get out and backup 30 mins away, and if i had an explorer with me then, DO WHAT I SAY WHEN I SAY IT!

[OfcMikey]

If the explorer saved my *** and ended up dead, that would really suck, but if the explorer did the right thing by saving my ***, then yah, it was the right thing to do.

I risk my life for others, I expect the same from anyone that sits in my car, or they don't sit in my car. My only ride alongs ever have been two close friends and one family member, that's in 11 years.
I guess that's why I don't take ride alongs, rarely have a partner and would never take an explorer. I expect too much from the people I ride with. BTW, we use one person units, so it's not my breath that keeps me from having a partner.

Sure, I tell them not to get involved unless I yell for it. I would be crazy to tell them otherwise.

[Alyssa]

Explorers will probably do more harm than good assisting officers. We are not trained police officers, and we shouldn't be put in the position to act as one.

I have always been told by the officers in my department that if anything went wrong, the best thing to do is to call for help on the radio. The officers don't want to worry about an explorer, as well as theirselves.

As for that forum, those explorers have issues so don't pay mind to what they say. They think they're cops since their departments let them drive cruisers code 3, chase felons on foot, and get to participate in SWAT training When the SHTF, they are probable the ones who don't even know where they are.

[ 11-21-2002, 09:05 PM: Message edited by: Alyssa ]

[InSane1]

my first ride along... the officer showed me the release switch to the MP5 and said, "If I get into trouble, pull this switch, grab the gun and start shooting. PLEASE"

That was a great ride!

[OfcMikey]

quote:

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Originally posted by InSane1:
my first ride along... the officer showed me the release switch to the MP5 and said, "If I get into trouble, pull this switch, grab the gun and start shooting. PLEASE"

That was a great ride!

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See, I'm not crazy. Oh wait, yes I am.

[InSane1]

I think he's baitin me. Check your PM's dude.

Actually in MN, its totally legal to open fire on someone who is causing death or great bodily harm to another. (even if you are a civillian)

Statute 609.066.. DEADLY FORCE.

[OfcMikey]

Not at all Xena. I wouldn't taunt you. You'd kick my ***.
I would love to have a ride along that wants to shoot people.
It is legal here in Az too. Too bad it doesn't happen more often.

[Oregon Mike]

We've had a similar debate on this site in the Explorer forum, but I thought of a new side to it.

For all of you officer types that don't ever want Explorers getting involved in a fight, how do you feel about civilians physically helping cops in trouble? I'm not talking about riders, I mean when you're rolling around in the middle of the road with Joey the Maggot and a motorist stops. If that motorist, understanding the risk and still willing to help you, wants to help, would you want him to? What if you're in a gun fight and an armed civilian is in a position to help you, should he?

If somebody doesn't want to risk their own safety for me, I'll respect that. But if I'm in a fight and someone with a little common sense wanders by, I'll take all the help I can get.

Untrained people can and do save lives, sometimes even cops' lives.

Mike

[thejason]

10mmMikey, whereabouts in Az are you? I need to ask you some questions about out departments here. Planning on entering LE in our smeltering state.