White Officer joining the Black Officer Association?

[Pintobean]

Our department has a chapter of the Black Officer's Association. I was thinking about joining the association for the benefits offered to the members and ect.. I am a white officer, but I'm not trying to make a mockery of the issue, nor make a statement in doing so and they will allow non-black officer's to join. I was wondering if anyone else has organizations like this within their agencies?
Do you know of others who have done this?
If so...what if anything was the outcome?

[Niteshift]

I've often wondered about these kinds of associations. If it's not ok to have an association that excludes everyone but white officers, IMO, it's not ok to have one that excludes them either.

[retired]

I agree 100% with Niteshift on this one. The last time I checked, we all wore the same badge, and we all bled red.

Retired

[Zamboni]

In this PC society they won't let you join and you won't be able to do a thing about it. But if roles were reversed and you were a black cop and wanted to join a white police officers association - well, you wouldn't be a cop much longer after you quit due to the million dollar discrimination award you would get.

[Don]

While I've never worked for an agency that was large enough to have this type of an orginizaton I did work one area that had a "Latino Peace Officer's Association." The orginization was open to all officers of "chicano" descent from all agencies in the county.

I thought the idea sucked back then and I think it sucks today!

OBTW "Chicano" was THEIR word, not mine.

[DesertRat]

Originally posted by Pintobean:
I'm not trying to make a mockery of the issue, nor make a statement in doing so

Are you sure Sarge? Sounds like a good way to go from IAB Sargeant to Graveyards at the airport real quick. You looking for a transfer?

[Kaos]

Either I read his post wrong or the rest of you did.
He said that

they will allow non-black officer's to join

and was just asking if anyone else had done so.

[nickg]

take an organization such as NOBLE and change it to NOWLE and see what an uproar that would cause. you can't have one organization while denouncing another in the process and NOT call it racist. i'm not trying to stoke any fires here....just an observation and opinion.

[Summer Rain]

If it's not ok to have an association that excludes everyone but white officers, IMO, it's not ok to have one that excludes them either.

Is that to suggest that all female organizations such as IAWP (International Association of Women Police) or WIFLE (Women in Federal Law Enforcement) are sexist? Get a grip, I get so tired of seeing or hearing these type of arguments come up. Just as there are organizations that are state specific, so if I live in Califonia, should I feel discriminated against because I can't be a part of the Texas Peace Officers Association? The same goes for HBUC's (Historically Black University's and Colleges) Where students of ANY race or nationality can attend, but the curriculumn there may cover more culterly diverse subject matter than your other learning institutions. The purpose of organizations such as NOBLE and Latin American Police Association (LAPA) is to be a tool for officers' of certain backgrounds, whether they be black, hispanic, female, etc. to help them recognize and deal with certain issues that that particular group of people are more likely to be faced with. Arguments like this are such are waste of time to me. If these organizations are helping a female officer to become a better officer by teaching her street survival techniques that may be more crucial for a woman or if a black officer gains better knowledge of how to deal with cultural diversity in the community he patrols.. then what the hell is the problem? Why don't you place your time and energy someplace where it's most needed, and try helping race relations instead of taken our society backwards. Afterall, segregation was not our choice in the first place... lest thou forget.

[ 10-22-2001: Message edited by: Summer Rain ]

[SGT Dave]

Yeah, believe it or not, I support their right to exclude whoever they want, and make whatever exclusions they want unless they become subversive, which ain't going to happen. I’m sure they ARE bound, as a group, with concerns that “White LE” or “Hispanic LE” do not have, and I support them in their right to meet, fraternize, socialize, and discuss issues.

I think this would be akin to trying to force homos into the Boy Scouts by court pressure. As long as they are not subversive, I don't care.

I do see your point that it might get nasty if it were the other way around, but that is F****** POLITICAL CORRECTNESS in our society, which is a problem, and not the "Black Law Enforcement" community.

Charlotte Mecklenberg has spent MILLIONS of tax dollars defending their school districting policy that excluded white students from certain schools (even if they were 25 minutes CLOSER) that was based on an old court order to end segregation, and they continued it EVEN AFTER A FEDERAL JUDGE told them to end it, that there was NO evidence that any black student was still being discriminated against and to end the policy.

I could have saved them millions by asking one question : “Can a white student go to any school they wish?” No, then it’s race based discrimination. END IT.”

I am NOT a closet racist-I am not even one of those who always say “I have good friends that are black…” We ARE equal, and I DON’T SEE COLOR, unless I’m giving a physical description, or seeing discrimination, or seeing REVERSE discrimination.

We ARE, however, one color behind the badge, as stated earlier.

Sorry for the length as usual, but I can’t explain my feelings on the issue without explaining.

[retired]

So it is okay to have race-based organization within a law enforcement agency, EXCEPT white!!! Try and form a "White Peace Officers Asociation and see what happens!! See how long it lasts. Different race based organization within a law enforcement agency are divisive--period!! There will always be animosity from the other groups.

So I suggest that you, Summer Rain get over it, and look upon LE as one group of people, not gender or race!!

Retired

[nickg]

Originally posted by retired:
So it is okay to have race-based organization within a law enforcement agency, EXCEPT white!!! Try and form a "White Peace Officers Asociation and see what happens!! See how long it lasts.

Retired

that's what i was saying in my previous post. NOBLE (National Organization of Black Law Enforcement) is ok, but substitute Natonal Organization of White Law Enforcement and you will see Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton on the 6:00 news denouncing such "racists" attitudes, especialy within law enforcement walls. as i said before, you can't have one and then talk out of the other side of your mouth about the other. and don't use the "diversity" card either. black/white/yellow/brown/red -- it makes no difference to the crack head gangbangers. and there should be no deversification among ranks in law enforcement. you are ONE without race/ethnicity/religion,etc. when you are working together towards a common cause!!

[Niteshift]

"Is that to suggest that all female organizations such as IAWP (International Association of Women Police) or WIFLE (Women in Federal Law Enforcement) are sexist?"

That was a question........which led to your next comment:

"Get a grip"

Maybe you should get a grip. You asked a question, then started berating me before you even heard the freakin answer.

I didn't say those organizations were sexists, nor did I say the race based ones were racist. If you saw that, it was written somewhere else then it was written by someone else and you shouldn't associate it with my quote.

Now....... what I am talking about is the double standard that others have mentioned. If there were a White Male Police Assoc., there would be a lot of complaining. I'd like to know why it's ok for some groups, but not others?

"Just as there are organizations that are state specific, so if I live in Califonia, should I feel discriminated against because I can't be a part of the Texas Peace Officers Association?"

First, who said you can't? I have joined organizations in other states, like the Texas Assoc. of Hostage Negotiators, even though we have a similar organization in FL. You're making the assumption that you can't join.

Second, state specific has some merit. Certification, pay and employment issues in Alaska are not the same as in Alabama. The difference is, that even if you were actually excluded from joing the Maine Police Assoc., you could move to Maine, become a cop and join. If you are excluded from joining based on race, you can't change that ever.

Further, it can divide a dept. You have 2 guys in NYPD. Both can join the Patrolmans Protective League (or whatever it's called), but only one can join the assoc. for Hispanics. Where does that become right?

"The same goes for HBUC's (Historically Black University's and Colleges) Where students of ANY race or nationality can attend, but the curriculumn there may cover more culterly diverse subject matter than your other learning institutions."

I don't see that parallel at all. You just said people from any race can attend, so how does that have any similarity. That means people can CHOOSE whether or not they want that cirriculum.

"Arguments like this are such are waste of time to me."

But you jumped in anyway.

"If these organizations are helping a female officer to become a better officer by teaching her street survival techniques that may be more crucial for a woman or if a black officer gains better knowledge of how to deal with cultural diversity in the community he patrols.. then what the hell is the problem?"

If that were the case, I wouldn't care. I'm not sure what organization you are referring to, but most of these, like NOBLE, conduct little, if any training. Their aim is legislation and political actions, not training.

You referred to the Latin American Police Assoc. How many classes did they conduct last year in your area? How about nationwide?

"Why don't you place your time and energy someplace where it's most needed, and try helping race relations instead of taken our society backwards."

Who in the hell are you to presume to know what I have or have not done in helping race relations? Where do you get off?

I'll bet I've done more for relations in the Hispanic community than non-hispanic cop you personally know. I'm the one that took time to learn the language, to learn the culture.... that can talk about what was on Univision last night with them, because I watched it. I get requested to work their dances, weddings and gatherings.

Maybe you should know something about the topic before you start your attack.

"Afterall, segregation was not our choice in the first place... lest thou forget."

And just whose choice was it? Who is segregated in law enforcement and by whom?

[Sparky]

I was once told I could not run in a marathon fund raiser for breast cancer because I was a man.

I decided that if they did not care enough about breast cancer to let me help them rasie money, then I would go somewhere else with my time.

[Zamboni]

Originally posted by Summer Rain:
If it's not ok to have an association that excludes everyone but white officers, IMO, it's not ok to have one that excludes them either.

Is that to suggest that all female organizations such as IAWP (International Association of Women Police) or WIFLE (Women in Federal Law Enforcement) are sexist? Get a grip, I get so tired of seeing or hearing these type of arguments come up. Just as there are organizations that are state specific, so if I live in Califonia, should I feel discriminated against because I can't be a part of the Texas Peace Officers Association? The same goes for HBUC's (Historically Black University's and Colleges) Where students of ANY race or nationality can attend, but the curriculumn there may cover more culterly diverse subject matter than your other learning institutions. The purpose of organizations such as NOBLE and Latin American Police Association (LAPA) is to be a tool for officers' of certain backgrounds, whether they be black, hispanic, female, etc. to help them recognize and deal with certain issues that that particular group of people are more likely to be faced with. Arguments like this are such are waste of time to me. If these organizations are helping a female officer to become a better officer by teaching her street survival techniques that may be more crucial for a woman or if a black officer gains better knowledge of how to deal with cultural diversity in the community he patrols.. then what the hell is the problem? Why don't you place your time and energy someplace where it's most needed, and try helping race relations instead of taken our society backwards. Afterall, segregation was not our choice in the first place... lest thou forget.

[ 10-22-2001: Message edited by: Summer Rain ]

So lets see. If I as a white, male, cop wanted to start a white male cops group would you support it? We have issues. Other races automatically assume we are picking on them because they are black or brown and were the big bad white cop. We know that many department such as Seattle give hiring and promotion preferences to minorities and women so we have to work twice as hard to earn the job or promotion. We know that there is a double standard out there for what we can do and what a female or minority cop can get away with, at least in my dept. Example - We have 2 females cops out of about 100. One of the female cops has wrecked her patrol car 12 times now in seven years, 9 of which were her fault. She got no disciplinary action until her 8th wreck that was her fault. A male officer got disciplinary action after his second. Basically we know that the adminstration lets those two and the one minority cop we have get away with more because they are afraid they will get sued for sexual or racial harassment if they take action against them.

My real point is that there should be no exclusive groups in police. We are all cops and thats all that should matter. These special groups just create resentment from the rest of the cops.