Euro Dollar to Euro Police

[Nittany Lion]

Blair suffers a double defeat on asylum seekers at Seville summit
By Francis Elliott in Seville
(Filed: 23/06/2002)


European Union leaders yesterday moved to establish an EU border police force to patrol shores, ports and crossing points against illegal immigrants. The dramatic attempt to strengthen "fortress Europe" could mean foreign guards wearing an EU uniform patrolling in Britain.

The heads of government said that the moves were a stepping stone to the creation of a fully fledged European-wide force which would act in tandem with each nation's police.

The proposals were launched at the Seville summit against opposition from Tony Blair. The Prime Minister suffered a double defeat as his own rival plan to counter illegal immigration - withdrawing aid from some Third World countries - was thrown out.

In contrast, the move towards a common border force, to be called the European Union Corps of Border Guards, was given an enthusiastic welcome. The summit agreed to launch a series of working groups to hone proposals made by Italy for the new force, which would have its own uniform and badge and be drawn from all 15 member states. It could be in place by 2007.

As an early step, co-operation between the existing police and immigration units of member states is to be enhanced immediately. Gerhard Schr

[LeslieBScott]

How much longer before Europe becomes a single country under a single government?

[Watchman]

Sounds like a bunch of bulls*it to me.

Just how many "illegals' are getting INTO Europe ?

I'd wager a bet that there are more leaving the place than coming in.

How much longer before Europe becomes a single country under a single government?

They wont stop until the entire world is under one government. They'll get it away with it by telling everyone its for their own "saftey", national sovereingty be damned...

The fact that the French are for it is enough to turn me off on the concept...

[ 06-24-2002: Message edited by: Watchman ]

[Urban Jedi]

"Sounds like a bunch of bulls*it to me.
Just how many "illegals' are getting INTO Europe ?

I'd wager a bet that there are more leaving the place than coming in."

Watchman, I'll take you up on that wager......

In 2001, 175,000 people entered the UK by illegal means and were caught/claimed political asylum as refugees. It is a fair estimate that almost 300,000 did NOT get caught, and did not register for asylum. That makes almost half a million people entering the UK. The figure is likely to be higher this year. About 10% will be deported after a lengthy and somewhat pathetic procedure.

Evidently, you are not aware of our farcical and incredibly lax immigration laws. The channel tunnel running from France to UK is the ususal point of entry for refugees/illegal entrants, who simply jump onto moving freight trains and wait to get caught upon arrival in the UK. About 100 people probably get in this way every day (theses are the ones that don't get caught). If they are caught in the UK, they are taken to a police station, and given the address of the local Immigration Service reception centre, where they go and are given money, food and clothing, and await allocation of state benefits, housing, schooling and healthcare.

I think our immigration system is honourable and has the rights of the individual at its heart. It is however, blatantly being abused by people who are in no danger of persecution in their home country and simply want an easy life. Obviously, some immigrants are genuinely persecuted, and have the right to enter the country and stay as refugees. The vast majority do not (speaking from experience) and many (NOT all) have connections to East European organised crime, or are of interest to the law enforcement authorities in their home country. It is easy to turn up in the UK with no documentation, and make up a name etc. Nobody checks this at all.

I reckon a Euro border police would be a cracking idea.

[n567]

Watchman, why would there be more people leaving Europe, than entering it? That's just like saying there are more people leaving the U.S, rather than entering it. Generally, prosperous, first world countries attract...
http://www.german-embassy.org.uk/foreign.html

I don't many statistics, but the economist reports that about 500,000 people illegaly enter the E.U every year, and about 390,000 people request asylum in the E.U every year.

As for the E.U... It's a good idea. The European Union will be a more powerful entity than the United States.

[Watchman]

Evidently, you are not aware of our farcical and incredibly lax immigration laws.

Evidently I'm was'nt...but I am now...

So where are these people coming from ? Surely they are'nt ALL coming from France.

As for the E.U... It's a good idea. The European Union will be a more powerful entity than the United States.

Whats good about that ? Its just another step towards one world government. Why would ANY entity more powerful than the US be a "good"idea ? It seems to me that it'd be just a matter of time before some head of the EU deicides that we Americans are just a thorn in their side. If they thought they were strong enough to conquer us, they just might try it.

Another Roman Empire. I cant see anything good coming out of that.

I read up on history. I belive it enough to not want this stuff to happen again.

[Sig220Man]

So where are these people coming from ? Surely they are'nt ALL coming from France.

They're coming from eastern Europe, especially the former Soviet Union. France is simply a popular stopping point; several ferries run between France and Britain, and of course it's the southern terminus of the Channel Tunnel.

Why not western Europe? Simple: citizens of EU nations are free to live and work in other EU nations. When I was last there, I noticed a certain French-owned hotel chain like to employ French employees as well.

In addition to the Channel Tunnel, they're also getting in via the many ferries that run between Britain and the rest of Europe. I think it was sometime last year when a whole bunch of them died in the back of a truck that was sitting at the Port of Dover.

I reckon a Euro border police would be a cracking idea.

Even better than a European Border Patrol is for countries like France to do more to stop the flow. It seems like Britain has had to fight this problem alone. On the French side of the Channel Tunnel is a refugee camp. Rather than send these folks back to where they came from, they allowed the Red Cross to set up the camp. It's already been proven that the director of that camp has had advance knowledge of uprisings at the camp, which are used to distract the local police and security guards, allowing refugees to storm the tunnel.

Whats good about that ? Its just another step towards one world government. Why would ANY entity more powerful than the US be a "good"idea ? It seems to me that it'd be just a matter of time before some head of the EU deicides that we Americans are just a thorn in their side. If they thought they were strong enough to conquer us, they just might try it.

1. Most of the EU already think we're a PITA. It's only Britain that likes us. The rest merely tolerate us...and sometimes not even that.

2. I don't recall any divine decree that says the US shall be the lead dog forever. It's only through events of history that we got to where we're at now.

3. Every great superpower rises and falls. It happened to the Romans, and yes it happened to the British. Anybody who thinks we'll be the world's biggest, greatest superpower until the end of time is kidding himself.

4. I don't believe in that "One World Order" stuff.

[Mike Tx]

Would that we only had 175000 coming here every year...

[n567]

Originally posted by Watchman:
Evidently, you are not aware of our farcical and incredibly lax immigration laws.

Evidently I'm was'nt...but I am now...

So where are these people coming from ? Surely they are'nt ALL coming from France.

As for the E.U... It's a good idea. The European Union will be a more powerful entity than the United States.

Whats good about that ? Its just another step towards one world government. Why would ANY entity more powerful than the US be a "good"idea ? It seems to me that it'd be just a matter of time before some head of the EU deicides that we Americans are just a thorn in their side. If they thought they were strong enough to conquer us, they just might try it.

Another Roman Empire. I cant see anything good coming out of that.

I read up on history. I belive it enough to not want this stuff to happen again.

If you're European, it's a good idea. Uniting the various economies of Europe is a smart move, as their collective power will allow them to have the most powerful economy in the world, and by a somewhat healthy margin, as the E.U has about 500 million citizens in all. Watchman, I sincerely hope you were joking when you said the E.U would use force at some point (considering they ever create more than the token military quick response force they have now) to conquer the United States. The idea is really amazingly stupid. Europe and the U.S are staunch allies. I mean, we, the U.S.A are powerful enough to conquer any number of nations, but we don't. Besides which, two nuclear powers have M.A.D on their minds whenever conflict is possible; which it's not in this case. Back to the real, possible, rational topic at hand...

Many of the immigrants come from former European colonies, that is, Northern Africa, Asia, and the Middle Eeast. They come in through Greece, Italy, and Spain, which all have extremely long coastal borders, and since there are no checkpoints between nations anymore, once you're in Italy or Spain, it's easy sailing from there on out. Additionally, immigrants pay to be packed into cargo containors like anchovies and come in through the ports... I've read of some disasterous ends through that method. Easier route to go is just get a visa, and when it expires - Just don't leave.

[ 06-25-2002: Message edited by: n567 ]

[Watchman]

n567...

If you think its such a great idea, why dont you leave California and take part in this great experiment ? I mean,you might as well live in the "most powerful economy in the world" right? Why settle for second best? Since we are on the decline, I would expect it to be an exellent opportunity. I would expect the Euro dollar to be much stronger in the future, especially once those pesky Brits fully embrace it.

Shorty thereafter, such outmoded concepts as national sovereignty, cultural differences and even national armies will become a thing of the past. Then the glorious and all knowing benevolents in the U.N. will rule all of Europe and everyone will live happily everafter. There will be a European Economy, with a European Army and even a European Navy to shuttle basic resources from one country to the next when they run out.Since most of then will have to come from Africa and Russia, it will be natural to assume that since they are necessary partners that they too will become members of the mighty E.U.

Naturally, any resistance from citizens of those countrys that are resistant to change and those that refuse to be team players by not playing along with the E.U. will be taken care of by the E.U.'s "token army".Since most countries have already been disarmed, that ought to be no great feat.Since the Armys of each nation will be dissolved,(no more "need" to have one}because of the mighty E.U. that takes care of everyone,what resistance does occure will be no more than isolated instances of guerilla action. First it will be the Russian federation, that would make sense since they are on the same land mass. Then it would be Africa, close,yet not much capabilty of resisting. I mean look at the potential natural resources that are untapped there. Soon, the whole African continent and all of Eurasia will be ONE ! Oh what a glorious day for mankind !

I can harldy wait.

Thankyou n567...you have made me see the advantages of a stronger E.U....the most poewerful economy in the world !

[n567]

Oh, I certainly did enjoy living in Europe, I'll admit it. I love California too much though... And I personally don't care one iota about being a citizen of the most powerful governmental entity in the world anyway.

Watchman, dear boy, I never said it was an advantage to you. I was referring to the Europeans who are a part of it. This gives them more power economically, something all nations strive for. Especially nations that feel they have been bullied by the U.S for far too long. It certainly won't give them the power to overwhelmingly control the entire world as you believe it would. China, what with their acceptance into the W.T.O is certainly going to be quite a competitor.

Second, I sincerely doubt any nations in Europe have any desire to give up their own militaries. When I say token, I mean a mere 6,500 soldiers token, soldiers who are all members of differant European militaries. It's akin to a U.N peace keeping force, really.

And if they ever set their eyes on Russia, it wouldn't take an invasion, Russia is very eager to become connected to Western Europe in an economical, and military sense. It would be great for their economy, and national stability. After all, they just got granted some manner of guest membership into N.A.T.O. Additionaly, Russia has a resource rich Siberia just waiting for some (western european and american) developers with money.

[Urban Jedi]

Watch:

We're already under a Euro government, and required to comply with the increasingly ridiculous laws and regulations sent out from Brussels. However, despite the single Euro currency, there is no single Euro state, and I don't think that will occur in my lifetime - too many member states are steeped in their own sovereignty (Britian, Spain, Denmark etc)to hand the running of their country over to faceless Brussels bureaucrats. An unfortunate rise in right wing nationalism in Europe also indicates European citizens feelings on nationalism, and whilst it is NOT the same thing, their patritotism to their home country. (I hope that makes sense - I am not saying Nazism is the same as patriotism, just that many people confuse right wing racist politics with patriotism, hence a rise in right wing political popularity).

As for Euro Armies and Euro Cops, these are a good idea, made up of personnel from member states as in Bosnia, East Timor etc where international UN police are deployed.They could be administered centrally, but have very strict jurisdictional responsibilities.