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  • Law Enforcement Against Prohibition

    Having grown up during the Reagan years and being the first of the 'Just Say No' generation I wonder what the reaction/position of law enforcement officers is on the 'drug war.'

    Coming from a family with a rich history in Texas law enforcement and having taken the first steps toward following in their foot steps I'm conflicted in my personal views about the path that this campaign has taken us.

    My grandfather was a sheriff in a south texas county for five decades and watched the evolution of the drug trade to what it is today and before he died in 2011 he said he couldn't believe what had happened to his state - namely that the people no longer respected policemen and that he could only sympathize with them - that the new breed of officer had strayed from the path of respect - primarily because of the way the war on drugs was being waged and the resulting culture of machismo and superiority adopted by cops. He warned me not to go into law enforcement if I wasn't sure of my ability to remember who I am and that the people I serve are the people I work for and live with and that I'm no better than they are.

    Law Enforcement Against Prohibition is a non-profit group of current and retired peace officers. I live in a major drug corridor and checked out their page while researching about drug interdiction efforts.

    I have to say, I must agree that every observable evidence indicates that drug prohibition and the resultant effort to suppress drug import, sale and use has been futile.

    Massive spending, incarceration, death all for naught. No tangible gains. Trade and use at an all time high. It's not working and is time to try something else.

    What's the definition of insanity? Doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result.

    Cops aren't to blame necessarily, they would be derelict not to enforce laws that other people make - but the culture that has been fostered seems reprehensible.

    The most telling thing about the fallacy that is the war on drugs - is:

    The group that we would most expect to take the stance that the war on drugs is noble and is a righteous cause are the cops waging it. They're the ones who go out every day operating on the premise that their ultimate goal is to "win the war" and see a final end to all drug use.

    And yet, I'd bet my bottom dollar that if you asked those same cops if they would really like to see the drug war come to an end - and got an honest answer - their answer would overwhelmingly be 'no.' They want, more than anyone, for the drug war to continue.

    Forget the tangible reasons, like having a drug war gives then a job, and that they desperately depend on the revenue from asset forfeiture and federal subsidy to simply exist, they just downright enjoy the picture the drug war paints.

    They like being 'warriors' fighting clearly defined 'evil.' They love dressing up in tac gear with cool, black plastic weapons, barging in on busts and commanding authority over criminals. The adrenaline rush must be the best part of their job - its exactly what draws people to that line of work.

    If it all went away tomorrow that would be an insufferable blow to them.

    If somewhere there was a secret, magic button that when pushed would eliminate all drugs in the world, I'd wager everything that far more drug-law-enforcers would refrain from pushing it than would actually move to 'end the war.' Of course, in public every drug-cop will claim to wish for nothing more than to have such a magic button, but in the secrecy of their own mind they'd never push it and are overjoyed that such an end will never come. If the drug war went suddenly away they'd have to find something much more boring to do to pull a paycheck.

    And that right there is how you know the war on vice is folly. The very people tasked with winning it want more than anything for it to carry on forever.

    What do y'all think? Should cops try and get back to protecting the public from outer harm rather than inner, personal action? Drug gangs only exist for people to need protection from because of drug criminalization - there aren't any beer cartels. As someone who respects liberty I believe that every person has the right to choose whether or not they consume drugs.

    It's a tough road to hew, but I wish we could get back to real policing and regain some of the honor and respect that police are entitled and if we could change some laws I truly think that would happen. I loathe the idea that people see police as the enemy.

    www.leap.cc

  • #2
    Yea because having 10x more drug addicts will lower the crime rate....

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by CASH View Post
      Having grown up during the Reagan years and being the first of the 'Just Say No' generation I wonder what the reaction/position of law enforcement officers is on the 'drug war.'

      Coming from a family with a rich history in Texas law enforcement and having taken the first steps toward following in their foot steps I'm conflicted in my personal views about the path that this campaign has taken us.

      My grandfather was a sheriff in a south texas county for five decades and watched the evolution of the drug trade to what it is today and before he died in 2011 he said he couldn't believe what had happened to his state - namely that the people no longer respected policemen and that he could only sympathize with them - that the new breed of officer had strayed from the path of respect - primarily because of the way the war on drugs was being waged and the resulting culture of machismo and superiority adopted by cops. He warned me not to go into law enforcement if I wasn't sure of my ability to remember who I am and that the people I serve are the people I work for and live with and that I'm no better than they are.

      Law Enforcement Against Prohibition is a non-profit group of current and retired peace officers. I live in a major drug corridor and checked out their page while researching about drug interdiction efforts.

      I have to say, I must agree that every observable evidence indicates that drug prohibition and the resultant effort to suppress drug import, sale and use has been futile.

      Massive spending, incarceration, death all for naught. No tangible gains. Trade and use at an all time high. It's not working and is time to try something else.

      What's the definition of insanity? Doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result.

      Cops aren't to blame necessarily, they would be derelict not to enforce laws that other people make - but the culture that has been fostered seems reprehensible.

      The most telling thing about the fallacy that is the war on drugs - is:

      The group that we would most expect to take the stance that the war on drugs is noble and is a righteous cause are the cops waging it. They're the ones who go out every day operating on the premise that their ultimate goal is to "win the war" and see a final end to all drug use.

      And yet, I'd bet my bottom dollar that if you asked those same cops if they would really like to see the drug war come to an end - and got an honest answer - their answer would overwhelmingly be 'no.' They want, more than anyone, for the drug war to continue.

      Forget the tangible reasons, like having a drug war gives then a job, and that they desperately depend on the revenue from asset forfeiture and federal subsidy to simply exist, they just downright enjoy the picture the drug war paints.

      They like being 'warriors' fighting clearly defined 'evil.' They love dressing up in tac gear with cool, black plastic weapons, barging in on busts and commanding authority over criminals. The adrenaline rush must be the best part of their job - its exactly what draws people to that line of work.

      If it all went away tomorrow that would be an insufferable blow to them.

      If somewhere there was a secret, magic button that when pushed would eliminate all drugs in the world, I'd wager everything that far more drug-law-enforcers would refrain from pushing it than would actually move to 'end the war.' Of course, in public every drug-cop will claim to wish for nothing more than to have such a magic button, but in the secrecy of their own mind they'd never push it and are overjoyed that such an end will never come. If the drug war went suddenly away they'd have to find something much more boring to do to pull a paycheck.

      And that right there is how you know the war on vice is folly. The very people tasked with winning it want more than anything for it to carry on forever.

      What do y'all think? Should cops try and get back to protecting the public from outer harm rather than inner, personal action? Drug gangs only exist for people to need protection from because of drug criminalization - there aren't any beer cartels. As someone who respects liberty I believe that every person has the right to choose whether or not they consume drugs.

      It's a tough road to hew, but I wish we could get back to real policing and regain some of the honor and respect that police are entitled and if we could change some laws I truly think that would happen. I loathe the idea that people see police as the enemy.

      www.leap.cc


      Most cops go to where the crime is and fight there.
      Since some people need to be told by notes in crayon .......Don't PM me with without prior permission. If you can't discuss the situation in the open forum ----it must not be that important

      My new word for the day is FOCUS, when someone irritates you tell them to FOCUS

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by CASH View Post
        And that right there is how you know the war on vice is folly. The very people tasked with winning it want more than anything for it to carry on forever.
        Are you citing the result of a comprehensive study here? Or is that just your opinion, and you're assuming everyone else feels the same way?
        At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.

        Comment


        • #5
          Legalizing dope won't stop other crimes. You will still have junkies stealing and robbing to get money. You will still have people getting robbed and killed for their dope and dope money. Most people have no idea how drug enforcement and investigations operate and only assume we jail everybody for a small amount of marijuana and seize assets from people to operate. My department could stop seizing anything tomorrow and it wouldn't impact our budget or operations.
          Where'd you learn that, Cheech? Drug school?

          Comment


          • #6
            I hope you are only referring to the legalization of marijuana and not all illegal drugs.
            Train for tomorrow, for you never know what it will bring to the fight.
            In the school of Policing, there is no graduation day.

            Arguing on the internet, is like wrestling with a pig in mud. After a while you realize that while you are getting dirty, the pig is actually enjoying it.
            Do Not Disturb sign should read, Already Disturbed Proceed With Caution.
            Even if the voices aren't real, They have some really good ideas.

            Comment


            • #7
              Are you an active or retired police officer?

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by BNWS View Post
                Are you an active or retired police officer?
                The OP is not a police officer (yet).
                Train for tomorrow, for you never know what it will bring to the fight.
                In the school of Policing, there is no graduation day.

                Arguing on the internet, is like wrestling with a pig in mud. After a while you realize that while you are getting dirty, the pig is actually enjoying it.
                Do Not Disturb sign should read, Already Disturbed Proceed With Caution.
                Even if the voices aren't real, They have some really good ideas.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by BNWS View Post
                  Are you an active or retired police officer?
                  I'm betting neither.
                  This Space For Rent

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by BNWS View Post
                    Are you an active or retired police officer?
                    Originally posted by Pogue Mahone View Post
                    I'm betting neither.
                    Originally posted by CASH View Post
                    Having grown up during the Reagan years and being the first of the 'Just Say No' generation I wonder what the reaction/position of law enforcement officers is on the 'drug war.'

                    Coming from a family with a rich history in Texas law enforcement and having taken the first steps toward following in their foot steps I'm conflicted in my personal views about the path that this campaign has taken us.
                    Yea, I wondered also after I got lectured.

                    Originally posted by Iowa #1603 View Post
                    Theoretically true


                    But if someone is trying to kill me, I WILL be trying to kill them first
                    Originally posted by CASH View Post
                    Well, yes, because killing equates to ending the threat - but ultimately your goal in shooting is to end a threat not to kill - it's simply a matter of biology that a dead person can't physically, intentionally harm you.

                    Your answer to the review board when asked why you shot is always going to be along the lines of shooting to keep him from --shooting, stabbing, choking--me.

                    There's been more than a couple cops tripped up for saying they were intent on killing someone.
                    Since some people need to be told by notes in crayon .......Don't PM me with without prior permission. If you can't discuss the situation in the open forum ----it must not be that important

                    My new word for the day is FOCUS, when someone irritates you tell them to FOCUS

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Pogue Mahone View Post
                      I'm betting neither.
                      http://forums.officer.com/t201347/#post3717691
                      Train for tomorrow, for you never know what it will bring to the fight.
                      In the school of Policing, there is no graduation day.

                      Arguing on the internet, is like wrestling with a pig in mud. After a while you realize that while you are getting dirty, the pig is actually enjoying it.
                      Do Not Disturb sign should read, Already Disturbed Proceed With Caution.
                      Even if the voices aren't real, They have some really good ideas.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Iowa #1603 View Post
                        Most cops go to where the crime is and fight there.
                        Right. Drugs are illegal, so drug laws get enforced. No problem there, that's the job. The problem is that doing the job: 1. Isn't working - prohibition has done absolutely nothing to curb drug import or use. 2. Manifested animosity between the populace and the police because of the overzealous nature of the modern day "drug warrior," making the job unduly more difficult for police.

                        Originally posted by JustAnotherITguy View Post
                        Are you citing the result of a comprehensive study here? Or is that just your opinion, and you're assuming everyone else feels the same way?
                        1. Obviously it's my opinion - that's made abundantly clear throughout and is the entire premise. 2. I was asking opinions, hence the questions posed.

                        Originally posted by JDCOP View Post
                        Legalizing dope won't stop other crimes. You will still have junkies stealing and robbing to get money. You will still have people getting robbed and killed for their dope and dope money. Most people have no idea how drug enforcement and investigations operate and only assume we jail everybody for a small amount of marijuana and seize assets from people to operate. My department could stop seizing anything tomorrow and it wouldn't impact our budget or operations.
                        1. De criminalization absolutely would stop other crimes. Junkies steal and rob because they can't afford dope. Know why they can't afford it? Because it's illegal and the prices are artificially inflated to astronomic levels. Stopping drug related crime is one of the biggest arguments FOR ending prohibition. The drug market isn't going away - that's proven - what it is is a black market with no regulation but massive profit, so the result is drug crime. 2. Drug offenders make up the vast majority of the U.S. Prison population. And sorry, but arrests and incarceration for even petty marijuana offenses make up a sizable portion of that sum. 3. I don't know specifically about your locale but even the most cursory search reveals that a great number of departments are entirely self-sufficient based wholly upon seized assets.

                        Originally posted by bpd303 View Post
                        I hope you are only referring to the legalization of marijuana and not all illegal drugs.
                        I don't pick and choose, personal liberty is personal liberty. If someone wants to puff a joint, OD on speedballs or just plain blow their own brains out I have absolutely no right to interfere with another's actions when they do not affect me.

                        Originally posted by BNWS View Post
                        Are you an active or retired police officer?
                        I thought I kind of mentioned that in the OP, sorry.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by CASH View Post
                          ... 2. Drug offenders make up the vast majority of the U.S. Prison population. And sorry, but arrests and incarceration for even petty marijuana offenses make up a sizable portion of that sum. 3. I don't know specifically about your locale but even the most cursory search reveals that a great number of departments are entirely self-sufficient based wholly upon seized assets.
                          Let's have a caveat for California. California having a significant portion of people in prison inside the Unitd States. Have you heard of the good word of Propisition 47? The sagacious and visionary voters of California implemented this law in November of 2014. It took effect the night it was passed and basically let everyone out of prison who was in for drug convictions based on simple possession. It also lowered the penalties for simple possession of ALL drugs except alcohol. So, if they make up the majority of the U.S. Population, please kindly put a (*) at the end of that sentence and specify that in California possession of a date rape drug with the intent to commit a rape is only a misdemeanor. Misdemeanor do not get sent to prison AND thanks to United States Judge Theldon Henderson for being such a vigilant observator and commentator on California's Prison System, we also have Assembly Bill 109, which reduced many Felonies to time served in county jails and made them no longer eligible for State Prison service.

                          So you see, your statement isn't entirely accurate.
                          semper destravit

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Another college kid who knows it all without any real knowledge.
                            Where'd you learn that, Cheech? Drug school?

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              It is beyond well documented that leagalizing marihuana will NOT harm the cartels, as they already deal better quality methamphetamines that you will find in Billy Bob's trailer.

                              The Russians deal heroine that is so strong, it will kill you the first time you try it

                              Thinking that legalizing weed will end all of the crime related to it reminds me of the 30 something loser in life that had to have his MOM drive him to an illegal weed deal, and they got robbed.


                              But hey, you say we can't and won't win the war on drugs, so why enforce it? Hell, we may never win the war on homicide, so let's stop enforcing that to.
                              I yell "PIKACHU" before I tase someone.

                              Comment

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