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Trooper Shoots Family Dog

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  • #76
    Listen man, let's just end this here. Your re-direction tactics will not work on me. You belive whatever fairy tale you like, and I will look at the facts. Fact is, they will pay. I am 100 percent in agreement that the cops were wrong.

    It's against the law to point a weapon at someone not commiting the crime of putting you in danger of death or serious injury. The fact that the police did not know they were dealing with the law abiding is irrelevant. Nothing you or anyone else can say or do to convince me or several million Americans otherwise, and I have yet to see anything on the so called "news" to sway my opinion agaisnt the police in this matter. To clarify that last remark, I have not seen any "news" about this fiasco.

    So you go right on supporting an untenable position, it is expected. When those cops are ruined and forced out of their jobs for whatever excuse will be given for this monumental screw up, you can then whine about how everybody hated you and doesn't understand cops.

    What you should really do is try to answer the question I posed yesterday to the cops on this forum, and that is how this can be avoided by all parties, and less people will hate the police. Instead you want bullshlt.

    [ 01-10-2003, 10:37 PM: Message edited by: Mike Tx ]

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    • #77
      I was not even aware I was using re-direction tactics.
      Look, I can't answer that question, can you?
      I agree we need a way to stop this from happening again. What more do you want, man? You go ahead and hate the police all you want. But I will maintain my untenable position. It really doesn't matter what the police do or do not do, there will always be ppl that hate the police, that is just the way it is.
      All of god's creatures are entitled to live without fear of "gun violence" except for you and your family. - <a href="http://www.handguncontrolinc.org/selfdefense_quiz.htm" target="_blank">Source</a>

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      • #78
        Mike? are you joking?
        Oh... Oh... I know you di-int!

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        • #79
          Mike, back down a bit. You're on your high horse again about court accepted tactics and what should not have not been based on what you discovered after the fact. YOU'RE also the one who helps to inflame things here with this topic.

          quote:
          What I want to know is: How could this incident have been prevented? Just what else could this family have done (other than request the doors be closed to keep the dogs inside) such that this killing of their pet did not occur? What had they done wrong that they should have their dog shot?
          --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

          I have asked almost exactly the same questions and been attacked on this forum by police for that. It seems that those questions are/were not allowed. Perhaps now that things are calming down it will be different.

          No, Mike, you weren't attacked for asking that question, you were the one who thinks that because we don't who's behind the wheel of a POSSIBLE felony involved vehicle, we should put ourselves in even more danger so as not to upset anyone. That, as you've been told, is BULLS***!

          No one hear has an answer for that question. They may have suggestions, but not an answer. This scenario could be played out 100 different times with 100 different agencies in 100 different manners. There is no way to get the perfect outcome from this. Steps could be taken to HELP prevent it, but as long as there are dangerous crimes and real live people reporting those crimes, the possibility of this kind of stuff happening again is still there.

          Comment


          • #80
            I had a American Staffordshire Terrier, he was the coolest dog. He was 26 inches at the shoulders and weighed 80lbs. He also loved to kill cats and other rodents. When he got ****ed of he wagged his tail, he would wag it when killing other critters, and when fighting with other dogs.

            All this nonsense about the dog wagging his tail, is bullschit

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            • #81
              well, i have not seen the tape but who shot the dog the trooper or the pd officer?

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              • #82
                the only thing wrong that i see is it's some family on vacation with their dog. if this had been john the turd with a lengthy history, his hooker girlfriend, and their dog coming back from a rave, and neither of them had done anything wrong, this wouldn't have even made it in the back pages.

                if my dispatcher tells me that someone called and saw a carload of peole going 110mph down the road with money flying out, i'm taking that deadly serious.

                i don't see anything wrong with it. but now i'm sure we will throw officer safety out the window as millions of agencies scurry to write in policies that deal with animals in cars on felony stops.

                i honestly think the media has made this into something it's not. they word it like it's some poor family out vacationing when all of the sudden they were betrayed by the people they rely on to protect them.

                granted it was a sad situation, but how else do you approach something that you believe may be a serious felony?

                if this had been me in that situation, i wouldn't have been as close to the car as they were. we usually have them come back to the front bumpers of our cars then we run up, handcuff them one at a time and bring them back to the car. closing the door would not have been an option as i wouldn't be close enough to do it.

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                • #83
                  quote:
                  Originally posted by Mike Tx:

                  It's against the law to point a weapon at someone not commiting the crime of putting you in danger of death or serious injury. The fact that the police did not know they were dealing with the law abiding is irrelevant. Nothing you or anyone else can say or do to convince me or several million Americans otherwise...

                  You are dead (no pun intended) wrong! If I'm in fear of death or serious physical injury, I'm justified. Even if it turns out that the danger was not real, my actions are not out of line. By the way, when did you become the voice of "several million Americans"?
                  quote:

                  When those cops are ruined and forced out of their jobs for whatever excuse will be given for this monumental screw up, you can then whine about how everybody hated you and doesn't understand cops.

                  I'll give you whatever odds you like that not one of those officers will lose their jobs over this. Also, if their respective employers pay any money, it will be because of the dispatcher error, not because of what the officers did.
                  quote:

                  What you should really do is try to answer the question I posed yesterday to the cops on this forum, and that is how this can be avoided by all parties, and less people will hate the police. Instead you want bullshlt.

                  Sometimes things can't be avoided. Sometimes you can do everything by the book and something still goes wrong. ACCIDENTS HAPPEN! Law enforcement is not immune to this (though I'm not implying that the officers in this scenario were wrong).

                  Comment


                  • #84
                    quote:
                    It's against the law to point a weapon at someone not commiting the crime of putting you in danger of death or serious injury.
                    Which law is it against?

                    Comment


                    • #85
                      quote:
                      While I am concerned about the proedures used in this incident, LE never lets a potential suspect on a felony stop direct them to do anything. LE is in charge
                      "Whatever you do, DON'T CLOSE THAT DOOR OFFICER!!! For the love of God DO NOT close that door!!!" (That's what they should have said)

                      quote:
                      He was pulled out at gunpoint, handcuffed, his car thoroughly searched, and detained for 45 minutes until THE sheriff arrived and basically said, "It's not him...let's clear the scene".
                      They must have had a pretty damn good description to arrest and search him like that....I think I'd be ****ed.

                      quote:
                      I will remind you that in some states in this country the family dog may rank higher in esteem than the children
                      Which states might THOSE be?!!?!? I could see putting the dog higher than the wife in the hierarchy, but the kids?!!!?

                      Cops are just like any other group of people. Some are more afraid of dogs than others. That doesn't mean he was wrong for shooting the dog. It's just unfortunate that there wasn't an officer there who felt he could handle the dog without shooting it.

                      Comment


                      • #86
                        quote:
                        Originally posted by MadMax:
                        I had a American Staffordshire Terrier, he was the coolest dog. He was 26 inches at the shoulders and weighed 80lbs. He also loved to kill cats and other rodents. When he got ****ed of he wagged his tail, he would wag it when killing other critters, and when fighting with other dogs.

                        All this nonsense about the dog wagging his tail, is bullschit

                        Madmax, Staffies were bred to fight other dogs. They were not bred to attack humans. In fact any that had aggressive behavior towards humans in the past.
                        I have a staffie now and after viewing the video I could tell he was getting ready to jump up on the cop and try to get his attention. But he was giving any indication of bitting.
                        How many people did your staffie bite?
                        Mine is on zero and will stop at one.

                        Comment


                        • #87
                          quote:
                          Originally posted by retired:

                          While I am concerned about the proedures used in this incident, LE never lets a potential suspect on a felony stop direct them to do anything. LE is in charge, not the party that was stopped. What if this had been a couple of escaped convicts, and one was lying on the floor of the vehicle just waiting for an officer to casually walk to the door to shut it. I don't know if the officers had time to clear the vehicle prior to the dog shooting or not. I would think that since they had all three occupants out of the vehicle, it should have been cleared.

                          I've been thinking about this, since it seems to me that many people are bothered by the fact that the family (at least allegedly) pleaded repeatedly for the officers to close the doors on the car so the dog would not escape. On the one hand, I can see that the suspects should not be allowed to dictate what the officers must do or not do. But suppose things had gone down just a litle different: What if instead of pleading that the doors be shut so that the dog not escape, they had pleaded that the doors be shut so that their 3 year-old child not escape. Their pleas go unheeded, and, sure enough, their 3 year-old wanders out wondering what is going on, toddles into traffic and gets run over before officers have a chance to stop it. Now, did the officers still do everything exactly as they should have, or is there a fault on their part? What is different, from the point of procedure, in the modified case?
                          I'm not trying to argue that the officer was wrong in shooting the dog, by the way. I think what the officer did was not unreasonable under the circumstances, but I'm wondering whether there was an ideal solution to the situation that might have been available (notice that the availability of an ideal solution does not necessarily show that actual actions taken are blameworthy -- it's one thing to say it would have been better to have done x than y, it's another thing to say it was wrong to have done y).

                          Comment


                          • #88
                            As a cop, I feel I can say this(Since it's MY opinion anyway, I can pretty well say what I think, right? bracing for the FLAMING that's coming):

                            IMO, in today's high-stress world of LEO work, too many recruits coming out of TODAY's academies are taught to simply REACT instead of THINK.

                            Yes...it IS possible to do both...and if you aren't doing it already, you'd better well get busy LEARNING HOW right NOW.

                            I've been on the 'receiving end' of a charging pit bull. It's no fun, but I escaped unscathed, as did the dog(I couldn't shoot because the owner was in the line of fire). I had my Beretta out of my holster w/o even thinking about it(REACTING), aiming for the dog's head.

                            Being a 'dog lover' in general, I didn't WANT to shoot the dog, and since I COULDN'T anyway, I put a vehicle between me and the dog(THINKING).

                            It wasn't neceassarily the MACHO thing to do, BUT IT WORKED OUT.....THAT time.

                            IMO(take it for what it's worth...which may/may not be $0.02, depending on the exchange rate), too many of today's younger officers rely on the various 'reality' cop shows in dictating a proper response. Again, IMO, they'd be better off watching the reruns of 'Andy Griffith'.

                            As I mentioned earlier re: the FUBAR'd dispatch; it is MY belief that this tragedy will be used in academy classrooms for years to come on what NOT to do(re: communications breakdowns).

                            [ 01-11-2003, 07:46 PM: Message edited by: shooter1201 ]
                            "When you guys get home and face an anti-war protester, look him in the eyes and shake his hand. Then, wink at his girlfriend, because she knows she's dating a *****."
                            -Commanding General, 1st Marine Division

                            Comment


                            • #89
                              quote:
                              Originally posted by Frank Booth:
                              quote:
                              It's against the law to point a weapon at someone not commiting the crime of putting you in danger of death or serious injury.
                              Which law is it against?
                              Oh, so you imply that I can point a gun at anyone I choose and not be arrested? Now that's a good one Frank.

                              You know what I think? I think since we pretty much decided it's ok to shoot the dog in the name of officer safety, why not give mailmen guns and let them shoot dogs also as they deliver the mail? LOL!

                              Comment


                              • #90
                                quote:
                                Oh, so you imply that I can point a gun at anyone I choose and not be arrested? Now that's a good one Frank.
                                He's not implying anyting. Bottom line, in a high risk stop, which is what this started out as, it is perfectly legal to have guns drawn.

                                Sorry about your luck, Mike.

                                Comment

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