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Trooper Shoots Family Dog

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  • #61
    My 2 cents. I ran a search on the city involved and it is listed as a speed trap. I saw the video on T.V. and I am familar with dogs. I did not see the dog as a threat. Did anyone think of calling the store to see if they were really robbed? Did any cop out there think these people did not look or act like they just jacked a place? I am sorry if those small town cops spent a year in the big city they would learn how to think.

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    • #62
      quote:
      What I want to know is: How could this incident have been prevented?
      Better communication from the reporting party, through the dispatcher to the officers. The officers are at the bottom of that line of communication so all they know about the situation is what they're being told.

      OK, here's where I have problems with the Monday morning quarterbacking. The family did nothing wrong to get their dog shot. Their dog was not shot as some sort of punishment. It was a series of events that turned sickingly tragic.

      It's completely wrong to not take the entire incident section by section. To help, let's try it.

      For some reason, a person leaving his wallet on the roof of his car got turned into a robbery. A robbery is a serious offense and it is assumed that some degree of force is being used to committ it, up to and including firearms. For this, armed with no further information, the officers can only assume that what they are receiving is the true story and that the person committing the offense is equipped to resist.

      So, in this section, either the reporting party didn't articulate good enough or the dispatcher erred. Either way, the officers were responding to what they were told was going on. To do otherwise could be a very disatrous mistake.

      Once on scene, the car was stopped and the next series of events were put into motion. From what I could gather, a good felony stop was initiated. Once again, and it bears repeating...the officers were working with the information received to them by a private citizen through the dispatcher...there is NO WAY, prior to the blues being activated, for the officers to know who these people were and what their intentions were.

      The dog. I'm a dog lover, so I think it's sad. As LEO's, we're not doggy psychiatrists or behavioral specialists. We know what we have seen, are seeing and what we've been taught. In other words, training and experience comes into play. If it looks like I am under attack, I will do what I can to prevent it. Plain and simple. If that means shooting, I'm sorry, but I would. As long as I can articulate why I did what I did, I'm OK.

      quote:
      The general citizenry is not going to put up with this type of heavy-handed law enforcement, no matter how well justified the action might be.
      Hmmmmmmm...heavy handed tactics. Sorry, bud, but in this situation I'm not ready to be Mr. Nice Guy. Someone reported a robbery and I'm gonna assume it's a robbery until I prove otherwise. I'm going home at the end of the shift and if the situation turns out to be a mistake, I'll dust everyone off and apologize to them. BUT, until then, they will be proned out and handcuffed.

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      • #63
        I don't know if the officer did the right thing or not. I wasn't there. I am sure the officer was in fear of being bit. Whether that fear was reasonable or not we'll probably never really know. I have dogs run up to me all the time. I have to decide how to respond to the dog. Some are obviously friendly, some agressive and some I'm just not sure about. Fortunately, I've never had to kill one, although, I have OC'ed a few. I haven't had to deal with the added stress of being in the middle of a felony stop when the dog approached. I feel sympathy for the family, their vacation certainly didn't turn out too well. I'm sure the officer doesn't feel so great about the outcome either. I, like DaveInTx, would like to know if there is anything that could have been done by anyone to prevent this tragedy. Out of curiosity, are the police responsible for securing property when they take people into custody?
        Bill R

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        • #64
          Speed trap, shmeed trap. Just because AAA or a bunch of disgruntled motorists make it a speed trap doesn't mean that the officers are brutal, heartless thugs who do felony stops for s**** and giggles.

          Was the store jacked or a person?

          quote:
          Did any cop out there think these people did not look or act like they just jacked a place?
          What does that type of person look like? Can you describe them? If so, I'd love to know so that I can my job of looking criminals that much easier.

          quote:
          I am sorry if those small town cops spent a year in the big city they would learn how to think.
          Kind of a rash assumption. Small agencies teach you a bunch about thinking. In many cases you don't have back up or a supervisor available immediately so you have to think for yourself. In order to make the right decision, you'd better be up on your P&P manual and Statute Books.

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          • #65
            quote:
            Kind of a rash assumption. Small agencies teach you a bunch about thinking. In many cases you don't have back up or a supervisor available immediately so you have to think for yourself. In order to make the right decision, you'd better be up on your P&P manual and Statute Books.

            I can vouch for that! I worked for a mid-sized(250+) Florida department for 3 years. In the past 2 years in a VERY small Tennessee department(20 or so), I have learned more than I ever did while with my former agency.

            No...that isn't TOTALLY correct. I learned TACTICS with my former agency. I learned how to APPLY them with my current department.

            [ 01-10-2003, 09:27 PM: Message edited by: shooter1201 ]
            "When you guys get home and face an anti-war protester, look him in the eyes and shake his hand. Then, wink at his girlfriend, because she knows she's dating a *****."
            -Commanding General, 1st Marine Division

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            • #66
              quote:
              This is not a bad guy, anybody in that situation would either of fired or been attacked.
              You know that for a fact do you?

              quote:
              What I want to know is: How could this incident have been prevented? Just what else could this family have done (other than request the doors be closed to keep the dogs inside) such that this killing of their pet did not occur? What had they done wrong that they should have their dog shot?
              I have asked almost exactly the same questions and been attacked on this forum by police for that. It seems that those questions are/were not allowed. Perhaps now that things are calming down it will be different.

              IMO You'll never get a satisfactory answer though, just an "officer safety" response. While I have no problem with cops going home intact to their families, I would like to get the same treatment,nationwide. Anyway you cut it, drawing a lethal weapon on a law abiding citizen is a felony. Defending it is pathetic. If you don't think so, then YOU try drawing your weapon on an innocent LEO and see what happens to you.

              [ 01-10-2003, 09:31 PM: Message edited by: Mike Tx ]

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              • #67
                SAM? WHAT STORE? THERE WAS NO STORE. There was NEVER a report of a robbery. No Victim at any point surfaced. they should have only put out an administrative message not a Fricken BOLO.

                sorry man.. this just annoys me. I suppose procedures are in effect, but thats rediculous. CJIS recommends BOLOs for interstate crime alerts, not for suspicious activity that has absolutely NO probable cause other then money flying out the window. WTF IS THAT? Probable cause that someone is throwing money out the window? I'd LOVE to hear the 911 call of the RP! (being facetious). That is not grounds for sending out BOLOs. At least not to me. I have worked and have been a certified CJIS user for 3 1/2 years and not once have I sent a BOLO. Attempt to locate, stop and ID...would have been MUCH more acceptable in this case. Not a FRICKEN BOLO on a Crime that no one had reported, witnessed, or been a victim of.

                That dispatch agency was WAY wrong. Poor Cop has to live with guilt that he killed a family dog in front of the family and the mental anguish they (dispatch) caused everyone. WHAT A C.O.W.!

                Those officers weren't wrong... but whoever initiated and requested the BOLOs should definately reprimanded.
                Oh... Oh... I know you di-int!

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                • #68
                  I imagine, that in future years, this event will be used in academy classroom settings to show what CAN GO WRONG when there is even a minor communications breakdown.
                  "When you guys get home and face an anti-war protester, look him in the eyes and shake his hand. Then, wink at his girlfriend, because she knows she's dating a *****."
                  -Commanding General, 1st Marine Division

                  Comment


                  • #69
                    quote:
                    Originally posted by Mike Tx:
                    You know that for a fact do you?

                    I find it difficult to believe that not only has this really 'evil' cop lasted all these years, but with no disiplinary action and a bunch of commondations. Doesn't sound like 'officer evil' to me.
                    All of god's creatures are entitled to live without fear of "gun violence" except for you and your family. - <a href="http://www.handguncontrolinc.org/selfdefense_quiz.htm" target="_blank">Source</a>

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                    • #70
                      But, you weren't there, and don't know this guy, and, you did not answer the question. Of course you don't have to answer.

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                      • #71
                        It is my impression of the guy, I really don't think there is anywhere even remotely resembling enough info to determine that he is the devil. But like I said, it was my impression.
                        All of god's creatures are entitled to live without fear of "gun violence" except for you and your family. - <a href="http://www.handguncontrolinc.org/selfdefense_quiz.htm" target="_blank">Source</a>

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                        • #72
                          So, how do you determine he was not the devil?

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                          • #73
                            Lucky guess.
                            All of god's creatures are entitled to live without fear of "gun violence" except for you and your family. - <a href="http://www.handguncontrolinc.org/selfdefense_quiz.htm" target="_blank">Source</a>

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                            • #74
                              Fortunatley that won't hold up in court. The courts deal in facts, or, at least, the most facts the DA can come up with.

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                              • #75
                                Is Eric Hall on trial for being evil?
                                Just because he had to do something that wasn't pretty doesn't make him evil.
                                All of god's creatures are entitled to live without fear of "gun violence" except for you and your family. - <a href="http://www.handguncontrolinc.org/selfdefense_quiz.htm" target="_blank">Source</a>

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