FBI brings back the 9mm

[Miller11x]

I am sorry, but I do not understand.

Of course shot placement matters. Is that not given? If a person is comparing 9 mm vs .45 (or any other product) would it not make sense that the effectiveness of each product would be compared under the same conditions? Or are we assuming that shot placement is not really an independent variable, but is actually a dependent variable?

They have if you look up ballistic gel studies


However by shot placement means putting the bullet where it's going to have the most effect = Pretty much any vital organs, the heart, lungs, brain. You put a 9mm, 45, hell even a little .22 until someone's heart or brain the end result is the same: DEATH

That's why choosing caliber type comes down to personal preference. Which caliber can you shoot the most accurately/effectively. I like 45's but 9mm doesn't bother me. I don't like .40 cause I think the recoil is to snappy for me but others love them. All that matters is putting that bullet into the right spot as quickly as possible.

[Max K]

I am sorry, but I do not understand.

Of course shot placement matters. Is that not given? If a person is comparing 9 mm vs .45 (or any other product) would it not make sense that the effectiveness of each product would be compared under the same conditions? Or are we assuming that shot placement is not really an independent variable, but is actually a dependent variable?

I think I understand your question: I think there is a scientific approach to this, consisting of an equation with several variables. And there is a more "human" approach to this, involving no equation or research, just a "feeling" and experience. . My guess is, you favor the scientific approach, whereas the cops here seem to favor the "human" approach. If one particular calibre is superior for most police work, it should be possible to figure that out by research. But I'm guessing that there are variables that interact with each other in such a way that there is no simple "solution", only options which must be decided upon.

For example somebody said that 9mm ammo is cheaper, for practice: that would be one piece of data. Another would be, what type of firearm is easy and safe and accurate to shoot for most people. Another would be, is there a contract with a major manufacturer, and how does that constrain the choices. Another would be, what policies does a given police agency have, which might constrain their choices. And probably 5 other things I don't know about. I know that many books have written about this by experts like Massad Ayoob and others.

Years ago, when I used to subscribe to gun magazines, I remember reading Jeff Cooper's column, and he advocated the .45. But just reading some of the opinions here, it sounds like maybe the 9mm is just as good, or even better in some ways.

[HI629]

I like my Glock 23. The .40 s&w is a "happy medium" between the 9mm and .45 ACP.

[BigMyk]

It's WHERE you put it. Not how big it is...

I've tried using that line in bars, it never works

[RSGSRT]

I've tried using that line in bars, it never works

That's because you have to use that line on women

[JustAJ]

So the 45 v. 9 battle will continue, there are people on either side that just know their favorite is the best ever. I have both, and don't really see a big difference other than weight on my belt. But then, by the grace of God, I have never - and hope to never - have to find out for sure. But I do carry a 9 for 1 reason --- 17+1 on deck, 2x17 on belt. That's 1 full box plus 2 more - at my immediate disposal. I like the idea of having a LOT of lead to throw should I need too, since with adrenaline comes loss of fine motor skills.

I was issued a Glock 9mm in 1990, about 2000 we went to the Glock 40cal and in or around 2005 we were issued the Glock 45 GAP. All worked well but I did like the extra ammo on board with the 9mm.

You guys hit on what I think is one of the biggest advantages, especially for those of you who work in remote areas where backup is questionable at best (distances, lack of officers, etc.).

[ftttu]

Everyone has an opinion on this issue but i don't think anyone is really wrong when they say a 9mm is as effective or almost as effective as larger calibers or the faster 9mm-.357 Sig, especially due to this "new and improved" technology ammo.

I still want that extra oomph that more lead gives like when you shoot pepper poppers with someone shooting a 9mm and you are shooting a larger caliber. The .40s and .45s will knock over the pepper poppers each time(all set at the same sensitivity) while the 9mm do it intermittently. Maybe not scientific or convincing to some but it works for me.

I would still feel confident carrying a 9mm handgun again and wouldn't mind having that many more bullets but I wouldn't change back unless I was forced to.

Also, I just got my Glock 43 a few weeks ago and these new Hornady Critical Duty 135 gr +P rounds I carry in it have my full faith.

[nobodyjr]

You don't need 17 bullets if your shot placement is good.

[Koala45]

You don't need 17 bullets if your shot placement is good.

People always try that argument, and it's flawed. Sure, you can be a good shot and stop the threat in 1, 2, or 3 rounds, but I'd rather have more and not need them than need more and not have them.

At the end of the day, handguns suck. They don't have a whole lot of energy and save for getting hit in a few very specific spots, a determined aggressor can fight through even fatal handgun wounds, at least for a bit. The only reason we carry them as our primary weapon system is because they are what we can comfortably carry. A perfectly placed 9mm will stop someone just as fast as a perfectly placed .45 ACP. Why not have the ability to send 19 of those shots down range instead of 8 or 10 before reloading?

[VA Dutch]

I am rather "old school" when it comes to caliber (the bigger, the better) and have always loved the .45 ACP while laughing at the 9mm. I remember when Pope John Paul II got hit three or four times by a 9mm and survived - while you don't often hear about people pulling through after taking .45 rounds into their body.

In recent years, I have changed somewhat - especially after purchasing a Glock 19 (9mm Luger) - and have really grown to love the simplicity, ease of shooting and great accuracy of the Glock. My neighbor (a cop himself) calls it a "brick" because it is so reliable and still a very safe gun. I will always hold my old .45 ACP in high regard, but the Glock is certainly no pea shooter!

Carrying 16 rounds versus just eight is also a definitely plus.

[tbone11_11]

I think the rounds between the two calibers are so similar in damage now, that it pretty much comes down to preference of recoil, magazine size, size etc. I know I won't overlook a 9mm again.


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[BiteThePullet]

I ONLY feel safe carrying akimbo .50AE desert eagles, with a 500 S&W as a backup appendix carry weapon.

Do I have enough stopping power?

You don't need 17 bullets if your shot placement is good.

Um.....wut?

[OneAdam12]

You don't need 17 bullets if your shot placement is good.

We called it spray and pray.




"A reporter did a human-interest piece on the Texas Rangers. The reporter recognized the Colt Model 1911 the Ranger was carrying and asked him 'Why do you carry a 45?' The Ranger responded, 'Because they don't make a 46.'"

[delzo70]

I normally don't get involved in the "what is the best caliber" discussions because I only believe half of what I've seen with my own eyes. I try to be open to what I read and hear but originally being from Missouri..... you just have to "show me".

During my career, I've personally seen a .22 enter a nipple and almost exit the back of a victim. Death was slow and painful. A drug-dealer hit SIX TIMES with a .357 in the chest, lived to only die after ONE bullet was implanted in his back during a second shooting a few years later. A 30-30 round killed a guy in short order after a ricochet off the floor put a hole in his gut, but a .45 round only blinded a fellow after taking a slug between the eyes.

My opinion? Forget caliber. Just keep applying lead to the target until the result you wish is accomplished. There are too many exceptions to the "rules".

[Miller11x]

I only feel comfortable carrying this:

https://youtu.be/hasipuR7-as?t=46s