Winston Churchill and Neville Chamberlain

[EmmaPeel]

People have made comparisons to what's going on now... and what happened in the 1930s leading up to WWII.

Let me caveat: I'm not saying we're heading to WWIII.

But for those of us paying attention, there is clearly a similar appeasement strategy being used to fight the global Jihadist movement NOW...... that was used to attempt to quash the Nazi movement in the 30s THAT DIDN'T WORK THEN EITHER.


Phil, with all the folks on this site steeped in knowledge of history, this could be a fun thread to collect insights and comparisons to that time in history...... that could have a predictive nature about not IF but when ISIS hits the U.S.

Anyone that would like to add anything to the thread, please feel free to pitch in.

I know MaxK will have a lot to say.....

[EmmaPeel]

Oh, and since the collective wisdom on this site has already had a far better batting average then anyone in the White House, the Pentagon, the State Department, or any press outlet in predicting the growth and activities of ISIS, I predict this thread too will have a far better batting average.

[EmmaPeel]

PhilipCal - I KNOW you have plenty of historical perspective and insight so please start "dumpin."

[EmmaPeel]

In fact, Phil, since many people don't even understand why people mention Chamberlain in comparison to Obama, why don't you or CCCSD give a short little historical tutorial for the Indys of the world who have probably never even been taught about Churchill in our pathetic school system.

[EmmaPeel]

Sanitizer, I know you have a lot of historical knowledge as well....even though you never talk about it. Would be great to get a dump from you too. Iowa as well.

[Seventy2002]

If we are discussing Churchill and jihad, we should go back father than WWII. One can make a case that radical Islam arose from the ruins of the Ottoman Empire. Churchill certainly had a hand in it's destruction. Although the Ottomans were pre-disposed toward Germany, Churchill, as First Lord of the Admiralty, may have tipped them away from neutrality when he seized Turkish warships under under construction in Britain. Had Britain not gone to war in the Middle East, the the war in Europe might not have concluded any sooner but the expenditure of blood and treasure would have been less.

Then we come to "The Great Loot," the carving up of the Ottoman Empire by the Great Powers. The Middle East was divided among the victors with lines drawn without regard for tribe, ethnicity, religion or tradition. Churchill did his part a Colonial Secretary, calling the Cairo Conference of 1921. The end result was the collection of despotic kleptocracies that breed radicals like garbage breeds flies.

David Fromkin's book, A Peace to End All Peace, is highly recommended.

Churchill was a good man to get you through a war but also a good man to get you into one.

[PhilipCal]

Here's a "quickie" from one of the finer minds this nation produced in the Twentieth Century. I reference Maj. General Fox Conner, U.S. Army. Conner was a West Pointer, served on Pershing's Staff in WWI, and later the Army General Staff.

Among General Conner's "caveat"

Don't fight unless you have to.

Fight no longer than necessary.

Always fight to win.

Conner also mentored a young Major named Dwight D. Eisenhower. Possible some of our current day "Students" would tell you Eisenhower managed the Chicago Cubs in 1945. Those a little more knowledgeable know to whom I referring.

I have no doubt that we have some fine officers in the Pentagon, who not only know who Fox Conner was, but who are equally adept that their craft. The problem is, and this where we're going to reap the whirlwind, is currently we have certified morons such as Ocrappa, Valerie Jarrett, Susan Rice, and a crowd who in a way, are worse than appeasers, in their ineptness, arrogance, and total lack of judgement, common sense, history, or the slightest inclination of proficiency in the operational arts.

None of these turds has ever had a real job, balanced a budget, met a payroll, run a household, or engaged in any effort requiring a modicum of common sense. And, that, scares the living sh..t out of me.

[CCCSD]

Winston was way ahead of just about everyone in parliament/US politics. It's amazing what education and experience, along with an American mother who inculcated a belief in himself and to never give up, allowed him the opportunity to be such a great leader.

When you compare him to POTUS et al, you see what our system has degenerated into: no allegiance to The People. Special franchises, overriding the interests of the US, only trying to create some type of "legacy," and rampant racism.

[tanksoldier]

I'm not saying we're heading to WWIII.

We are headed for WWIII, if we aren't already there. The ENEMY certainly thinks so. Our refusal to acknowledge that is part of the problem.

[CCCSD]

If you think it, they will come. POTUS has his head in the sand...

[PhilipCal]

If you think it, they will come. POTUS has his head in the sand...

Not to mention his a..s

[EmmaPeel]

If we are discussing Churchill and jihad, we should go back father than WWII. One can make a case that radical Islam arose from the ruins of the Ottoman Empire. Churchill certainly had a hand in it's destruction. Although the Ottomans were pre-disposed toward Germany, Churchill, as First Lord of the Admiralty, may have tipped them away from neutrality when he seized Turkish warships under under construction in Britain. Had Britain not gone to war in the Middle East, the the war in Europe might not have concluded any sooner but the expenditure of blood and treasure would have been less.

Then we come to "The Great Loot," the carving up of the Ottoman Empire by the Great Powers. The Middle East was divided among the victors with lines drawn without regard for tribe, ethnicity, religion or tradition. Churchill did his part a Colonial Secretary, calling the Cairo Conference of 1921. The end result was the collection of despotic kleptocracies that breed radicals like garbage breeds flies.

David Fromkin's book, A Peace to End All Peace, is highly recommended.

Churchill was a good man to get you through a war but also a good man to get you into one.

Thanks, Seventy, good post! Anything that delves into history of this topic is interesting. You probably won't be surprised that I disagree with your historical slant, but I love the historical milestones you bring up in your post. The Ottoman Empire is very interesting for discussion of Islam. In fact I think the best book written on the Middle East and the Ottoman Empire is the classic by Bernard Lewis, The Middle East.

I should've made it more clear but I was trying to emphasize the analogy between Chamberlain's appeasement of Hitler that lead to WWII and Obama's appeasement of ISIS/AQ/all Jihadists that is leading to global war in current times.

I should've added the word appeasement to the title and made it clear I was talking about Nazi hegemony but to be honest I like that you did throw in the Ottoman Empire aspect since we are talking about Islam.

But now having said that, the thread is actually about Chamberlain letting Hitler walk all over him and declaring with the same naiveté of Obama the infamous words, "Peace In Our Time." The similarities are so stark that it's chilling. I created the thread to delve into the details of those similarities. (My apologies for not being more clear.)

[CCCSD]

Potus is like Chamberlin, he thinks appeasement with Islam will work. He cannot fathom the realities of the world. Churchill, now HE would know what the hell is going on, and have a plan...

[EmmaPeel]

We are headed for WWIII, if we aren't already there. The ENEMY certainly thinks so. Our refusal to acknowledge that is part of the problem.

Thanks, Tank. I was trying not to go straight to that point since the people I'm hoping to reach are those still telling themselves ISIS is "over there" and has nothing to do with us. There are still a lot of isolationists within the military and LE and I thought the thread could slowly build the case to where those of us really paying attention know the situation really is.

My purpose of doing a Chamberlain thread is because I think so few Americans even know the history of how his weakness invited Hitler's aggression. And without knowing THAT history, how can they possibly see the uncanny repeat of the same type of miscalculation that led to WWII.

[EmmaPeel]

Potus is like Chamberlin, he thinks appeasement with Islam will work. He cannot fathom the realities of the world. Churchill, now HE would know what the hell is going on, and have a plan...

That's the thread in a nutshell.

Since the details take time to type up, I thought we could all chip in some of the details of the decade leading up to Hitler rolling into Poland.