dont slip up at walmart! holy crap!

[Gunnersmate323]

https://scontent-b-ord.xx.fbcdn.net/...14&oe=5459EB1B

[L-1]

I'm shocked. That was in Edmonton, Canada. Canadians are such polite people.

[Max K]

That was very interesting. I understand the good guys were loss prevention professionals. It was creepy to see the bad guy reach into his pocket to get out the knife, yet both of the good guys did not see it (because of the struggle).

I wonder how this would have played out differently if it was two cops (instead of loss prevention).

The video shows how difficult it must be to choose the correct level of force, because the bad guy has important advantages: the bad guy acts, the good guys react (with a slight delay); the good guys think of this as theft, and try to avoid excessive force, the bad guy smirks while preparing to stab the good guys. Did the loss prevention guys use the right amount of force? I don't know: as soon that knife came into play, I'm thinking the bad guy needed to be disarmed or neutralized fast, yet the struggle continued for while, during which the bad guy has the knife in play and could have stabbed one of them. It looked like the loss prevention guys had no tools at all except handcuffs. Maybe their employment contract does not allow then to have any weapons.

[JasperST]

The link has apparently been pulled.

[cnm313]

That was very interesting. I understand the good guys were loss prevention professionals. It was creepy to see the bad guy reach into his pocket to get out the knife, yet both of the good guys did not see it (because of the struggle).

I wonder how this would have played out differently if it was two cops (instead of loss prevention).

The video shows how difficult it must be to choose the correct level of force, because the bad guy has important advantages: the bad guy acts, the good guys react (with a slight delay); the good guys think of this as theft, and try to avoid excessive force, the bad guy smirks while preparing to stab the good guys. Did the loss prevention guys use the right amount of force? I don't know: as soon that knife came into play, I'm thinking the bad guy needed to be disarmed or neutralized fast, yet the struggle continued for while, during which the bad guy has the knife in play and could have stabbed one of them. It looked like the loss prevention guys had no tools at all except handcuffs. Maybe their employment contract does not allow then to have any weapons.

I'm unable to watch the video, although I would have loved to. I do LP for a local retailer and we're 100% hands off per company policy. In addition to the hands off approach, carrying any sort of "tools" is against company policy - this includes handcuffs! There have been times, especially in the LP office, where handcuffs would have been necessary.

[Shush]

Here is the video:

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=d87_1409517441

[cnm313]

Here is the video:

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=d87_1409517441

Thank you

[Shush]

I'm unable to watch the video, although I would have loved to. I do LP for a local retailer and we're 100% hands off per company policy. In addition to the hands off approach, carrying any sort of "tools" is against company policy - this includes handcuffs! There have been times, especially in the LP office, where handcuffs would have been necessary.

New Hampshire has Chapter 633 of the criminal code: "Interference with Freedom". Within that chapter, there are several sections about restricting movement of a person, i.e. a handcuffed person. A person duly authorized and sworn has the right to imprison (handcuff, haul off) a suspect - but a private citizen does not. That's why your company doesn't allow hand cuffs, the legal liability is huge. LP's role is to act as a deterrent, not enforcement.

[swat_op506]

Still, it could be a useful training video for newbies.
The hands- always watch their f**king hands.

[Aerohead]

I worked LP at 2 different places before. Both we could go "hands on" if necessary. One of them gave us handcuffs, the other didn't. The law is written that an agent of a store can make an "arrest" for retail fraud (shop lifting). However, MOST stores are going away from ANY hands-on apprehensions due to liability and will fire you if you exit the store to go after the person.

IMHO - someone stealing something that actually costs the store 90% less than the retail price isn't worth my life, especially when the retailer doesn't provide any means for self defense. I've had to chase people, fight with them, and found needles on one of them. I don't understand how anyone can do that job. I hated it.

[Shush]

I worked LP at 2 different places before. Both we could go "hands on" if necessary. One of them gave us handcuffs, the other didn't. The law is written that an agent of a store can make an "arrest" for retail fraud (shop lifting). However, MOST stores are going away from ANY hands-on apprehensions due to liability and will fire you if you exit the store to go after the person.

IMHO - someone stealing something that actually costs the store 90% less than the retail price isn't worth my life, especially when the retailer doesn't provide any means for self defense. I've had to chase people, fight with them, and found needles on one of them. I don't understand how anyone can do that job. I hated it.

The verbiage varies state to state, and the NH code was pretty specific. The only people it gave authority to detain (other than police) were security guards at a county fair, and even then they had to complete a portion of police academy training to be authorized to detain.

[Miller11x]

The two walmarts by my house got rid of their uniformed LPs and went solely to the undercover LPs. The uniformed LPs never had anything more than handcuffs and a radio.

[Aerohead]

The verbiage varies state to state, and the NH code was pretty specific. The only people it gave authority to detain (other than police) were security guards at a county fair, and even then they had to complete a portion of police academy training to be authorized to detain.

I forgot the "in Michigan part". I apologize.

[btfp]

I used to do undercover and uniformed door guard work. I live in PA. we carried cuffs. we used them. No problem. we then get a whore b1tch manager. NO CUFFS. After she saw what we dealt with, we could carry cuffs. The absolute worse boss I EVER had NO clue as to the job or how to manage people.
i also worked at another store for about 8 months no cuffs. If you did not come back into the store i did not chase you. i left that hellhole as well.

[Country_Jim]

Those two loss prevention agents are two of the luckiest people around. It appeared that the suspect stabbed at least one of the agents. I don't know how the agents weren't injured by the knife.