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Need supporting documentation on benefits of patrol rifles over shotguns

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  • Country_Jim
    replied
    Originally posted by SkyBehind View Post
    Here is a pic of my Saiga 12 [emoji41]
    That is a beautiful shotgun.

    Leave a comment:


  • JustAJ
    replied
    http://www.policechiefmagazine.org/m...atrolRifle.pdf

    Leave a comment:


  • SkyBehind
    replied
    Here is a pic of my Saiga 12 [emoji41]
    Attached Files

    Leave a comment:


  • SkyBehind
    replied
    Originally posted by Carbonfiberfoot View Post
    If you give up trying to convince the powers that be that carbines are both effective and appropriate, take a FN SLP, Benelli M4, Stoeger M3000, or Mossberg 930 and throw an Aimpoint T1 or T2 on it. People underestimate just how mechanically accurate slugs can be. Anything man-sized within 200 yards is pretty easy to score center mass hits on.

    If you're willing to rely on that magazine fed Saiga, you're far braver than me.
    Can't get denied unless I ask. In sure they'll approve it, just want to have the strongest spring documentation possible.

    I do like your statements regarding shotguns, and they can be VERY accurate. As far as the Saiga, remember I do gunsmithing, it's had the reliability treatment.

    Leave a comment:


  • Carbonfiberfoot
    replied
    If you give up trying to convince the powers that be that carbines are both effective and appropriate, take a FN SLP, Benelli M4, Stoeger M3000, or Mossberg 930 and throw an Aimpoint T1 or T2 on it. People underestimate just how mechanically accurate slugs can be. Anything man-sized within 200 yards is pretty easy to score center mass hits on.

    If you're willing to rely on that magazine fed Saiga, you're far braver than me.
    Last edited by Carbonfiberfoot; 10-27-2014, 03:20 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • SkyBehind
    replied
    I think if I make a request to SLED it will be approved. So back at the topic at hand, anyone have supporting documentation or perhaps studies you've used when your department made the transition? Please! [emoji1]

    Leave a comment:


  • SkyBehind
    replied
    Originally posted by Iowa #1603 View Post
    My guess is that even with the above amount of training-------------you are looking at probably 1/2 the hours that a full time Police Officer/Deputy Sheriff/State Trooper has to complete

    Your constables appear to have the training requirements and "job description" of a Reserve Officer in the state of Iowa. At least that is how SLED seems to have formulated rules to keep constables working with other Certified Officers, limits their powers, and weapons.

    Once again , if you wish to change things, I would start with your elected representatives so as to get LAWS changed
    Should have clarified, that's exactly what we are except we can work with any dept vs being limited to working with a specific dept (reserves). Also they can get paid for off duty jobs, we can't get paid for anything... Ever (without written permission from the director of sled).

    Leave a comment:


  • PhilipCal
    replied
    Need Supporting Documentation.

    My colleague seems to have nailed the essence of what your problem with SLED probably is. While I don't know the figure off hand, I strongly suspect Constables in your state do not receive the mandatory "minimum" hours of instruction required for other classes of LE officers.

    Should that supposition (if true) keep a Constable from carrying a patrol rifle? IMHO... hell no. Stated another way, and once more IMHO, SLED is screwing with you. OK, based on what you've told us, you're a pretty active shooter, both in the past and currently. I'm also willing to bet you could easily qualify and demonstrate proficiency with any weapon thrown at you.

    Once more, and I have to say this, your solution is going to be legislative. In all probability this will be an uphill fight. In other words, you could provide all kinds of documentation supporting your (very valid) views on the patrol rifle, but it simply won't do you a whole lot of good in changing SLED's current attitude, the resulting ruling from them.

    Leave a comment:


  • Iowa #1603
    replied
    Originally posted by SkyBehind View Post
    Th

    As far as statutory training, constable didn't use to meet the requirement, but now they do. Is like 60 hours required by law. Now constable are about 100, a little under 200 for advanced plus 240 of FTO.
    My guess is that even with the above amount of training-------------you are looking at probably 1/2 the hours that a full time Police Officer/Deputy Sheriff/State Trooper has to complete

    Your constables appear to have the training requirements and "job description" of a Reserve Officer in the state of Iowa. At least that is how SLED seems to have formulated rules to keep constables working with other Certified Officers, limits their powers, and weapons.

    Once again , if you wish to change things, I would start with your elected representatives so as to get LAWS changed

    Leave a comment:


  • Lady Blue
    replied
    Originally posted by jdthor View Post
    You are correct about our constables.They work alone mostly ,around here they do more civil work for the justice of the peace but they also at times will beat us to calls and assist us on calls also.
    Also in some counties they contract out to provide basic LE coverage for small communities. Responsibilities vary somewhat from county to county. They are all vested with full law enforcement powers, and hold the same TCOLE (they re-branded themselves this year) peace officer license that deputies, troopers, and municipal officers do

    Leave a comment:


  • jdthor
    replied
    Yea you wouldnt be able to do anything here but pass out smiley face stickers at wall mart.

    Leave a comment:


  • SkyBehind
    replied
    We actually have magistrates constables, they do civil process. Also, their are 3 types of state constables, 1 is your full time LEO investigators for certain agencies and depts like university and college police. Type 2 is retired LEO, Type 3 is volunteer (that's me).

    Leave a comment:


  • jdthor
    replied
    Originally posted by PhilipCal View Post
    OK, let me throw this at ya. It deals with contrasts. In Texas, a Constable /his/her deputies are fully enumerated, empowered, classified law enforcement officers. As I recall they are elected/appointed in districts or areas of a county. They work alone, with another Constable, or in concert with another LE Agency. They meet ALL the requirements mandated by TCLOSE. (Texas Commission on Law enforcement Officers Standards and Education.

    You Texas colleagues, if I screwed that up, please correct me.

    OTH, In Alabama for example, Constables are all but extinct. They are not payed, do not not meet any of the POST requirements for other classes of Officers, and are seldom seen in many areas of the state. In some states they are totally non existent. Once more, these statements are not made to belittle you in any way, but only to illustrate what may be at the root of your problem with SLED.

    You are correct about our constables.They work alone mostly ,around here they do more civil work for the justice of the peace but they also at times will beat us to calls and assist us on calls also.

    Leave a comment:


  • SkyBehind
    replied
    But back to the topic at hand, the policy and procedures manual says we can carry other weapons with approval (actually just about all restrictions have a caveat that you can get approval to not fall under those restrictions). I want done spring documentation to go along with my request. I already have some, but just thought I'd ask here as well because they're so many knowledgeable people here. :-)

    Leave a comment:


  • SkyBehind
    replied
    Originally posted by PhilipCal View Post
    What we're talking about here is your state Senator or Representative in the S.C. Legislature. Your post regarding your classification and status as Officers revealed (to me anyway) what may be a substantial aspect of your problem.

    Unless/until Constables become fully empowered, fully certified, enumerated Law Enforcement Officers, SLED will probably continue to restrict you as they have. Solution? Once more, legislative.

    You've got to have status much the same as a Trooper, Sheriff's Deputy, Municipal Police Officer, University Police Officer, the list goes on. That requires a minimum number of training hours: hours I suspect you don't receive currently.
    The law actually reads that a constable stands on the same fitting as sheriff. My ID says something to the effect of may enforce all laws of this state. It's not that I can't, it's just SLED's policy to only do so in emergency unless working or unless you're an advanced constable.

    As far as statutory training, constable didn't use to meet the requirement, but now they do. Is like 60 hours required by law. Now constable are about 100, a little under 200 for advanced plus 240 of FTO.

    Leave a comment:

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