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  • Shooting too well???

    Hey all, I was wondering if you guys have run up against this rumor before and if someone knows if it holds water or not.

    I have heard during days at the range some officers saying not to shoot too well, and to stay away from shooting perfect scores. They said on the off chance that I was involved in a shooting and a shot missed and hit an innocent those scores would be used against me by an attorney.

    Does anyone have any knowledge of something that happened like this? Maybe personal experience or knowledge of case law? I have been in a fair share of firefights overseas and obviously being in a controlled environment slinging lead at paper is completely different than an actual gunfight. The only alternative I suppose is to intentionally throw a round every now and then, but that just seems like bad training.

    Hope this is posted in the correct area, mods forgive me if it's not.

  • #2
    Originally posted by Grunt2LEO View Post
    Hey all, I was wondering if you guys have run up against this rumor before and if someone knows if it holds water or not.

    I have heard during days at the range some officers saying not to shoot too well, and to stay away from shooting perfect scores. They said on the off chance that I was involved in a shooting and a shot missed and hit an innocent those scores would be used against me by an attorney.

    Does anyone have any knowledge of something that happened like this? Maybe personal experience or knowledge of case law? I have been in a fair share of firefights overseas and obviously being in a controlled environment slinging lead at paper is completely different than an actual gunfight. The only alternative I suppose is to intentionally throw a round every now and then, but that just seems like bad training.

    Hope this is posted in the correct area, mods forgive me if it's not.
    That has been a running joke in law enforcement circle for as long as I have been around (which is longer than most on this forum)



    But as a word of caution -------------don't equate firefights in wartime with civilian police shootouts............that is worse than comparing apples with kumquats
    Since some people need to be told by notes in crayon .......Don't PM me with without prior permission. If you can't discuss the situation in the open forum ----it must not be that important

    My new word for the day is FOCUS, when someone irritates you tell them to FOCUS

    Comment


    • #3
      Thanks for the quick reply gentlemen.

      Iowa, I appreciate your point about equating firefights overseas with a civilian conflict. You can't just buck off rounds and hope for the best (at least you shouldn't) here in the US. I train for that exact reason, every round ends up somewhere and they all have a sender address.

      And Tick, I'm 100% with you as far as the "I love me" pins. I don't get awards for not wrecking my car every day, why should I get a ribbon for not missing a target I'm trained to hit?

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Iowa #1603 View Post
        That has been a running joke in law enforcement circle for as long as I have been around (which is longer than most on this forum)
        But as a word of caution -------------don't equate firefights in wartime with civilian police shootouts............that is worse than comparing apples with kumquats
        Originally posted by TheTick
        Umm, no. Shoot and shoot well.

        Every PD that has its **** together does not record your actual score, just "pass" or "fail" based on the exact reason you stated. It removes the ability of some ******bag attorney arguing over your shooting skills. All it should say is that you met the standards and nothing more. I'm also not a big fan of wearing all the "Pistol Expert" jewelry and such.
        ^^^^THIS^^^^
        Our qualification records are documented as passed with 70% or higher. I used to be a jewelery fan-boy but after having it brought into question, I took them off.

        “Truth is not what you want it to be; it is what it is, and you must bend to its power or live a lie.”

        Miyamoto Musashi

        “Life Is Hard, But It's Harder When You're Stupid”

        George V. Higgins (from The Friends of Eddie Coyle)

        Comment


        • #5
          We have also gone to Pass/Fail grading.

          Comment


          • #6
            It's really simple. Shoot well each and every time you're on the range.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by slamdunc View Post
              ^^^^THIS^^^^
              Our qualification records are documented as passed with 70% or higher. I used to be a jewelery fan-boy but after having it brought into question, I took them off.
              I just qualified this morning......................it was recorded as a percentage scored.

              80% is minimum passing score in Iowa per state code -----------I scored well above that but not as good as last year
              Since some people need to be told by notes in crayon .......Don't PM me with without prior permission. If you can't discuss the situation in the open forum ----it must not be that important

              My new word for the day is FOCUS, when someone irritates you tell them to FOCUS

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Iowa #1603 View Post
                I just qualified this morning......................it was recorded as a percentage scored.

                80% is minimum passing score in Iowa per state code -----------I scored well above that but not as good as last year
                Yeah, I know what you mean Iowa...it's H-LL getting old isn't it???

                Stay safe!
                Ski

                Comment


                • #9
                  Regardless of how well you shoot at the range you're supposed to ask politely for Mr. Bad guy to put down his gun, use OC/tazer, and if you actually use your firearm, should your score be above average at the range you will be questioned with "why couldn't you have shot the gun/sandwich out of his hand"? ect...

                  *sarcasm*

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Iowa #1603 View Post
                    I just qualified this morning......................it was recorded as a percentage scored.

                    80% is minimum passing score in Iowa per state code -----------I scored well above that but not as good as last year
                    Had to laugh because I to qualified at the range this morning. Ours is a pass/fail record.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by RSGSRT View Post
                      Regardless of how well you shoot at the range you're supposed to ask politely for Mr. Bad guy to put down his gun, use OC/tazer, and if you actually use your firearm, should your score be above average at the range you will be questioned with "why couldn't you have shot the gun/sandwich out of his hand"? ect...

                      *sarcasm*
                      you have been reading too much kot


                      Originally posted by JonathanE View Post
                      Had to laugh because I to qualified at the range this morning. Ours is a pass/fail record.
                      We had range yesterday and today------------I was glad I was working on shift yesterday as we got a total of 3.4 inches of rain yesterday.

                      Today was my day off so I went in this am and got it over with...............range was wet and muddy but it wasn't raining!!!!

                      Originally posted by codemanski View Post
                      Yeah, I know what you mean Iowa...it's H-LL getting old isn't it???

                      Stay safe!
                      Ski
                      I was still above 90%----------barely
                      Last edited by Iowa #1603; 10-15-2014, 06:25 PM.
                      Since some people need to be told by notes in crayon .......Don't PM me with without prior permission. If you can't discuss the situation in the open forum ----it must not be that important

                      My new word for the day is FOCUS, when someone irritates you tell them to FOCUS

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Well crap Guys, Just be thankful kot wasn't out there when you were qualifying. But, OTH, naw, let that one go.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          We too have gone to pass/fail. No scoring written.
                          Now go home and get your shine box!

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by PhilipCal View Post
                            Well crap Guys, Just be thankful kot wasn't out there when you were qualifying. But, OTH, naw, let that one go.
                            You just had to go there----------------------
                            Since some people need to be told by notes in crayon .......Don't PM me with without prior permission. If you can't discuss the situation in the open forum ----it must not be that important

                            My new word for the day is FOCUS, when someone irritates you tell them to FOCUS

                            Comment


                            • #15


                              Did my 218 quals this morning, damn range house mouse refused to believe I placed 15 rds in the same hole.
                              80% needed to qualify.

                              Comment

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