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As Pressure Mounts To 'Demilitarize' Police, Sovereign Citizens Arm For War

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  • As Pressure Mounts To 'Demilitarize' Police, Sovereign Citizens Arm For War

    I've posted a new story on Forbes in which i list the law enforcement officers who have been 1) killed by sovereigns and related extremists, 2) wounded by them, 3) shot at, or 4) where significant terrorist plots aimed at officers have been thwarted.

    If you know of any other cases, or run across them in the future, please drop me a line at jj (at) jjmac.net.

    Thanks.

    JJ

    http://www.forbes.com/sites/jjmacnab...tarize-police/

    The lists I assembled to back up my statistics can be found here:

    http://www.deathandtaxes.com/leostats.pdf

  • #2
    Originally posted by jjmacnab View Post
    I've posted a new story on Forbes in which i list the law enforcement officers who have been 1) killed by sovereigns and related extremists, 2) wounded by them, 3) shot at, or 4) where significant terrorist plots aimed at officers have been thwarted.

    If you know of any other cases, or run across them in the future, please drop me a line at jj (at) jjmac.net.

    Thanks.

    JJ

    http://www.forbes.com/sites/jjmacnab...tarize-police/

    The lists I assembled to back up my statistics can be found here:

    http://www.deathandtaxes.com/leostats.pdf
    I don't agree with lumping the militia types in the the sovereigns. I believe you are painting with a rather broad brush. Are they targeting LEOs? Shouldn't you connect those dots first?

    Comment


    • #3
      There has always been some overlap between militia groups, sovereign groups, tax protesters, the "Constitutional Sheriff" movement, and general anti-government extremists. Lately, that overlap has increased.

      Terry Nichols was both militia and a sovereign citizen, while his partner in crime Timothy McVeigh fell more into the general anti-government category.

      For example, Schaeffer Cox's group, the Alaska Peacekeepers Militia, had an almost 100% overlap with the sovereign movement. Cox was very active in the alternative sovereign citizen government (the Republics for the united States) and

      Ed Brown, of Plainfield New Hampshire is a sovereign citizen as well. He was the leader of the US Constitution Rangers prior to his 9-month standoff in 2007, and he progressed from militia leader to tax protester to sovereign citizen. Brown is currently serving 5 years in prison on the tax charges, and an additional 37 years for the threats, weapons, and explosives.

      After the Bundy, the overlap got a lot larger and the lines a lot blurrier.

      For example, all five groups spent time at the Bundy Ranch. The militia members took classes in the morning to learn sovereign techniques like how to hold a "common law jury" trial and in the afternoon, they taught shooting and tactical classes to non-militia members in the afternoon. The Oath Keepers on site spread the old Posse Comitatus ideas and legal theories surrounding the role of the county sheriff, and the younger generation brought Cop Block, Cop Watch, and Anonymous into the mix.

      To show how this mix worked, in late April, the supporters decided that the Sheriff Doug Gillespie of Clark County Nevada had committed treason for not defending Bundy and his supporters from the federal law enforcement agents tasked with removing the trespass cattle. They put Gillespie on trial in absentia, and the militia's plan was to arrest him and kill him on Friday, May 2, 2014. The militia members were promised payment out of a bond that would be placed on the Sheriff's oath of office. This is a blender full of sovereign, militia, tax, and Constitutional sheriff beliefs and myths.

      Comment


      • #4
        Duplicate post / deleted.
        Last edited by jjmacnab; 10-12-2014, 01:45 PM.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by JasperST View Post
          Are they targeting LEOs? Shouldn't you connect those dots first?
          I'm not sure I understand. I provided multiple examples of militia groups targeting LEOs on the statistics list.

          For example:



          I decided to leave a couple of recent cases off this list since there's some indication that the FBI may be using these defendants to go after others higher up the food chain.

          The brush I'm using is not particularly broad. I'm one of the few who carefully distinguishes between mainstream hard right (the Tea Party) and sovereigns.

          This is a leaked memo (06/12/14) from the NY Fusion Center:
          http://deathandtaxes.com/nyfusion.pdf

          And a very recent, leaked DHS Intelligence Support (10/03/14):
          http://deathandtaxes.com/DHSIntelMemo100314.pdf

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by jjmacnab View Post
            I'm not sure I understand. I provided multiple examples of militia groups targeting LEOs on the statistics list.

            For example:

            [ATTACH=CONFIG]12191[/ATTACH]

            I decided to leave a couple of recent cases off this list since there's some indication that the FBI may be using these defendants to go after others higher up the food chain.

            The brush I'm using is not particularly broad. I'm one of the few who carefully distinguishes between mainstream hard right (the Tea Party) and sovereigns.

            This is a leaked memo (06/12/14) from the NY Fusion Center:
            http://deathandtaxes.com/nyfusion.pdf

            And a very recent, leaked DHS Intelligence Support (10/03/14):
            http://deathandtaxes.com/DHSIntelMemo100314.pdf
            Dude, as a heavily trained economist, I can tell you our financial problems are out of hand. Our unfunded liabilities are in the hundreds of billions. Anyone that really understands how the budget works can identify with the desire to stop fiscal irresponsibilities in both parties.

            Tea Party is Mainstream hard right?????????

            The overwhelming number of tea partiers primarily just want fiscal responsibility and limited government. I got a feel for who they were when I was protesting the new Obamacare bill in DC in 2010 (year?) and Tea Partiers had been bussed in from all over the country.

            You know what most of them looked like? A lot like myself - well groomed, well behaved, polite middle class enlisted or commissioned military members with their families who were tired of bearing the brunt of our financial ills.

            I'm getting sick of watching you people describe them like whacko extremist nut jobs...............and I'm not even a Tea Party member.

            It's a great ****ing liberal tactic. And I will call you out on it.


            Maybe it doesn't bother you when you have a wife (or husband) that drives the credit cards out of site and pushes your family into financial problems, but where I come from, it's considered financial common sense to reign that irresponsibility in.
            Last edited by EmmaPeel; 10-12-2014, 02:45 PM.

            Comment


            • #7
              Thank you Emma for some needed common sense. While extremist groups are a concern to law enforcement, and I am aware of their potential, our current financial foolishness represents a far more potent threat. Posters such as we have here, lose a whole lot of credibility when they group the Tea Party Movement in with the actual dangerous extremists.

              I too am not a member of the Tea Party Movement, but I do share many of their fiscal concerns.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by PhilipCal View Post
                Thank you Emma for some needed common sense. While extremist groups are a concern to law enforcement, and I am aware of their potential, our current financial foolishness represents a far more potent threat. Posters such as we have here, lose a whole lot of credibility when they group the Tea Party Movement in with the actual dangerous extremists.

                I too am not a member of the Tea Party Movement, but I do share many of their fiscal concerns.
                I have no problem with the Tea Party Movement and actually know several hard core members of the movement

                I also know several Sovereign's -----personally and professionally

                The two philosophys don't mix, meet or even converge.
                Since some people need to be told by notes in crayon .......Don't PM me with without prior permission. If you can't discuss the situation in the open forum ----it must not be that important

                My new word for the day is FOCUS, when someone irritates you tell them to FOCUS

                Comment


                • #9
                  Wow. I specifically said that I'm one of the very few writers who does not lump Tea Partiers in with the extremist movement.

                  As for me using a f*****g liberal tactic...

                  1) I'm a dudette, not a dude.

                  2) I'm a conservative, not a liberal. Forbes is a conservative publication.

                  3) "You people." Which people did you just lump me in with? Radical-left extremists?

                  I consider Tea Party to be hard right, compared to Republicans, which I consider moderate-right.

                  Sovereign citizens are so far beyond the mainstream spectrum that they meet up again with the anarchists and extreme left on the other side of the circle. It's why I'm seeing so many younger recruits to the movement (cop killers Jerad and Amanda Miller, for example) who subscribe to both left and right extremist views.

                  JJ MacNab
                  Neither a heavily trained economist nor a cop.
                  Last edited by jjmacnab; 10-12-2014, 03:58 PM.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by PhilipCal View Post
                    Thank you Emma for some needed common sense. While extremist groups are a concern to law enforcement, and I am aware of their potential, our current financial foolishness represents a far more potent threat. Posters such as we have here, lose a whole lot of credibility when they group the Tea Party Movement in with the actual dangerous extremists.

                    I too am not a member of the Tea Party Movement, but I do share many of their fiscal concerns.
                    Thanks PhilipCal and Iowa for your common sense - AS USUAL!

                    You see here?...people like us from different political persuasions....could fix the country's problems by dealing with them honestly and with common sense just like on this topic......the problem is.....we're not political animals.....we're too honest and straight shooting.

                    Speaking of politics..........when are you going to run for office, Iowa????

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Had just one of us got the impression you originally conveyed, that would be one thing. However, the opposite was true, and that's the impression you left US with. Now, you're crawfishing, as in back peddling. Crap, Obama and his crew of merry idiots do that.

                      We are what we write ,and the point(s) you made, and to which you're entitled, are what was responded to.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by EmmaPeel View Post
                        Speaking of politics..........when are you going to run for office, Iowa????
                        When WHAT freezes over?
                        Since some people need to be told by notes in crayon .......Don't PM me with without prior permission. If you can't discuss the situation in the open forum ----it must not be that important

                        My new word for the day is FOCUS, when someone irritates you tell them to FOCUS

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by jjmacnab View Post
                          Wow. I specifically said that I'm one of the very few writers who does not lump Tea Partiers in with the extremist movement.

                          As for me using a f*****g liberal tactic...

                          1) I'm a dudette, not a dude.

                          2) I'm a conservative, not a liberal. Forbes is a conservative publication.

                          3) "You people." Which people did you just lump me in with? Radical-left extremists?

                          I consider Tea Party to be hard right, compared to Republicans, which I consider moderate-right.

                          Sovereign citizens are so far beyond the mainstream spectrum that they meet up again with the anarchists and extreme left on the other side of the circle. It's why I'm seeing so many younger recruits to the movement (cop killers Jerad and Amanda Miller, for example) who subscribe to both left and right extremist views.

                          JJ MacNab
                          Neither a heavily trained economist nor a cop.
                          But you DID call the Tea Party Mainstream hard right. (And I don't know how you removed the capital M from mainstream to small case without it showing you edited it, but it was the capital M that I also locked onto.)

                          Here I'll paste your quote again:

                          "The brush I'm using is not particularly broad. I'm one of the few who carefully distinguishes between mainstream hard right (the Tea Party) and sovereigns."


                          I'm going to explain it to you again. Fiscal responsibility is not extreme. What is extreme are the people that think that maxing out credit card debt in a family is ok.

                          And no, you're not a conservative if you think fiscal responsibility is FAR RIGHT.
                          Last edited by EmmaPeel; 10-12-2014, 04:31 PM.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Iowa #1603 View Post
                            When WHAT freezes over?
                            CHICKEN. Bak bak bak bak.

                            Come on...you know most the board would vote for ya.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by EmmaPeel View Post
                              CHICKEN.
                              I like corn
                              Since some people need to be told by notes in crayon .......Don't PM me with without prior permission. If you can't discuss the situation in the open forum ----it must not be that important

                              My new word for the day is FOCUS, when someone irritates you tell them to FOCUS

                              Comment

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