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Hammond PD Tasing During Traffic Stop

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  • Hammond PD Tasing During Traffic Stop



    Very interested to hear opinions on this one, especially from some guys with experience, as it's in my state and we're currently going through S.T.O.P.S. at Academy.

  • #2
    <--NOT LEO!

    But I think cops can order people out of the car. Looks like he didn't comply so he got zapped and cuffed. It's hard to tell since it's obviously not the entire encounter, I can't hear everything the cop is saying, and I can't tell what the suspect is saying.

    Indiana has stop & identify:

    IC 34-28-5-3.5
    Refusal to identify self
    Sec. 3.5. A person who knowingly or intentionally refuses to provide either the person's:
    (1) name, address, and date of birth; or
    (2) driver's license, if in the person's possession;
    to a law enforcement officer who has stopped the person for an infraction or ordinance violation commits a Class C misdemeanor.

    He says he gave them his information, but who knows if he did (or if he gave them all of the required info). He might have refused initially, which would have resulted in the law being broken. Doesn't undo the initial violation if he changes his mind and later agrees to provide his info. If he has no ID, and refuses to provide his info, I don't see how it's even possible for him to not be arrested.

    If I had to guess, it probably happened like this:

    1. Cops pull car over for no seatbelts on driver and/or passenger.
    2. Passenger has no ID and does not initially give verbal ID when cops ask for it (they need it to give a citation).
    3. He goes into his bag for some reason and cops **** themselves, pulling out guns.
    4. Cops ask passenger out of car for one or more of a number of reasons, such as: search him for weapons under Terry, cuff him because they're scared, and/or arrest him for seatbelt and refusal to ID since they can't reliably ID him if he has no ID card.
    5. Passenger refuses and resists arrest so they get physical.

    If I had to guess, I'd say cops did this legally. But we'll probably never know for sure.
    Last edited by kot; 10-07-2014, 09:30 PM.

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    • #3
      Open the door and the cop won't have to smash your window. Cops asked them calmly at least 4 times if they would open the door and both adults in the car refused to do so, I just looked at Indianapolis law and if a cop asks you step out of the vehicle you must comply.

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      • #4
        Originally posted by kot View Post
        <--NOT LEO!

        But I think cops can order people out of the car. Looks like he didn't comply so he got zapped and cuffed. It's hard to tell since it's obviously not the entire encounter, I can't hear everything the cop is saying, and I can't tell what the suspect is saying.
        Maryland v. Wilson extends Pennsylvania v. Mimms to passengers. I think the bigger question would be if that amount of force was reasonably justified. To me it seems it would really help to know what happened before with the guy allegedly reaching into his bag.
        Last edited by Matt N; 10-07-2014, 09:34 PM.

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        • #5
          I love it how the driver was calling 911 and telling the dispatcher she was afraid for her life
          Since some people need to be told by notes in crayon .......Don't PM me with without prior permission. If you can't discuss the situation in the open forum ----it must not be that important

          My new word for the day is FOCUS, when someone irritates you tell them to FOCUS

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          • #6
            Things have changed! I remember doing ride alongs with my best friends dad and uncle who were both old school MS state troopers gumball light era guys, I remember one time in the middle of a very bad storm his pulled some guy over called over the loudspeaker for him to come back to the patrol car, he rolled the window down like half and inch and got the guys DL and made him sit indian style on the ground in the middle of the rain storm, he wrote him a ticket and pushed the ticket and DL back out the little crack in the window, reversed out and drove off. lol I watched the full video on this and I would have done the same exact thing! I feel like a lot of officers are getting scared to follow up on their commands. I tell you 2 times and 3rd time its going to happen.

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            • #7
              Wonder which day the "Traveling Road Show" is going to show up. Now that he has some time on his hands, Eric "The WUS" Holder will probably join them.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by PhilipCal View Post
                Wonder which day the "Traveling Road Show" is going to show up. Now that he has some time on his hands, Eric "The WUS" Holder will probably join them.
                Phil, as you well know, those clowns always seem to have time to stir up trouble. Going on and on about racism and "The Man" and all that. And let's not forget Jeremiah "GD America" Wright.
                It is better to keep your mouth shut and appear stupid than to open it and remove all doubt.

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                • #9
                  Roger that !!

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Not a LEO, but every encounter I've had with the police (traffic) it has been remarkably easy to not get my *** kicked, or even yelled at. And I've earned a number of big tickets during my teen years.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Steve856
                      When is a question from an officer an order, and when is it just a request that I can turn down?
                      You are the lawyer

                      If you don't know you really need to get a refund from your law school

                      THEN hire a real lawyer and sue them for malpractice
                      Since some people need to be told by notes in crayon .......Don't PM me with without prior permission. If you can't discuss the situation in the open forum ----it must not be that important

                      My new word for the day is FOCUS, when someone irritates you tell them to FOCUS

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        If an officer asks, you are free to say no. If an officer tells you to do something do it. If he didn't have authority you can win that later in court. If he does have the authority and you fail to comply you're facing arrest, butt whooping, and probable criminal prosecution.
                        Today's Quote:

                        "The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has its limits."
                        Albert Einstein

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Isn't the "ask, tell, make" rule taught for just this kind of scenario?

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by mdrdep View Post
                            If an officer asks, you are free to say no. If an officer tells you to do something do it. If he didn't have authority you can win that later in court. If he does have the authority and you fail to comply you're facing arrest, butt whooping, and probable criminal prosecution.
                            That is great mdrdep----------------------if your person understands how people live outside of a internet chat room..................this poster does not


                            You are really wasting bandwidth answering him---------------he WILL come up with some argument trying to disprove you or tell you why you aren't REALLY" answering him

                            Originally posted by Steve856
                            Thank you, mdrdep. That’s pretty much what I thought. If an officer orders me to do something, then I have to do it; but if officer asks me to do something, then I am free to say no.

                            Here is the problem though that precipitated my prior query: in the video above, the officers did mostly asking, and not ordering. tj05 also posted that cops “asked them calmly at least 4 times if they would open the door.” The driver stated at 1:28-1:32 that the officers “asked her to open the door.” Even the very last communication from the officer at 1:49 before he smashed the window was “Ma’am, are you going to open the door?” At 0:15 the other officer stated “…I suggest that you come out of the car” which also does not sound like an order.

                            It is very difficult to hear everything, but is there any evidence that orders were actually given? Or did the officers only ask?
                            Last edited by Iowa #1603; 10-11-2014, 07:05 AM.
                            Since some people need to be told by notes in crayon .......Don't PM me with without prior permission. If you can't discuss the situation in the open forum ----it must not be that important

                            My new word for the day is FOCUS, when someone irritates you tell them to FOCUS

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Ya know, if I didn't know any better, I'd think our former resident idiot Kevin was back.

                              Comment

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