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Combatting the Andy Griffith fallacy

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  • Combatting the Andy Griffith fallacy

    So I read this politico article from a man who's son was killed by police. Something at the end of if caught my eye.

    But I also think the days of Andy Griffith and the Mayberry peacekeeper are over. As we can see in the streets of Ferguson, today’s police are also much more heavily equipped, armed and armored—more militarized. They are moving to more paramilitary-type operations as well, and all those shifts call for more transparency and more rules of restraint.

    Read more: http://www.politico.com/magazine/sto...#ixzz3BR0GbhrR
    I notice time and time again, the people crying 'militarization' tend to fall back on the false belief that the past was 'better' and that cops were all 'Andy Griffiths' who would bring their kids home after the committed a crime rather than jail them.

    Of course people with any sense know that the opposite is true: Current Law Enforcement is TAME compared to the past, especially pre-Tennesse vs Garner. Those of us who started in the 80s and 90s still remember those "old school" cops that told those (I think) frankly horrifying stories of the past and what they could/would do to people who ****ed them off.

    When people start going on about Andy Griffith, it's a good idea to link this article for their consideration: http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-28861630
    A 1982 Supreme Court case found it illegal to shoot at fleeing felons. Now, officers can only justify firing their weapons at civilians if they fear the loss of life or limb.

    The advent of Kevlar vests and other protective technologies enable police officers to work with less fear for their lives than in the past.

    As a result, the number of killings by police is down 70% in 36 years, says Candace McCoy, a professor of criminal justice at John Jay College in New York. Only a small percentage of the nation's 500,000 police officers are involved in shootings. Most retire without ever firing their gun in the line of duty.
    In other words, todays 'militarized' police are a LOT less lethal to the American public than the cops of the 'Andy Griffith era'.

    The truth is that Andy Griffith was a fictional character, if he's been real, he'd probably have shot 1st, asked questions later then let his deputy pump his 1 bullet into the corpse for good measure
    Last edited by BigMyk; 08-25-2014, 02:51 PM.
    ~Gun control has always been about punishing the people that didn't shoot anyone.

  • #2
    Ole Andy was also the justice of the peace. How impartial do you think he was signing search warrants on the spot for his own cases?

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    • #3
      Love this post, thanks BigMyk. I watched Andy Griffith religiously when I was young. I hear people say things like "this used to be just a little Mayberry town and now it's changed." I am all for nostalgia but The Andy Griffith Show was indeed a work of fiction. Taking a closer look at any town big or small would reveal issues like child molestation, domestic violence and theft. There's simply no such thing as a true Mayberry-Norman Rockwell type place.

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      • #4
        So true.......oh and btw, Mayberry isn't Mayberry anymore either.
        Harry S. Truman, (1884-1972)
        “Never kick a fresh turd on a hot day.”

        Capt. E.J. Land USMC,
        “Just remember – life is hard. But it’s one hell of a lot harder if you’re stupid.

        George Washington, (1732-1799)
        "I hope I shall possess firmness and virtue enough to maintain what I consider the most enviable of all titles, the character of an honest man."

        Originally posted by Country_Jim
        ... Thus far, I am rooting for the zombies.

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        • #5
          If you watch Andy Griffith there were episodes where Andy doing police work were mentioned. There was a part of town where Andy put on a gun when he had to go there. There was also an episode where a guy that Andy had shot when he was a Deputy was getting out of prison and Andy feared retaliation. They never showed it but they did put references that on occasion Andy did have to show and use force.

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          • #6
            Hello, I think I stepped into an alternate universe. I actually agree with BigMyk. Slap, slap......Just slapping myself to make sure I am awake. I think Myk will like that I am slapping myself.

            Don't forget Myk, you cannot say **** or any version of ****.
            Stupid has no color or race, everyone can participate.

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            • #7
              The whole "militarization" nonsense sounds so incredibly ignorant to me. Better equipment (mostly defensive in nature) leads to fewer deadly force incidents. For instance, I can't remember that last time our SWAT team killed someone. When you can batter the door down with an armored vehicle and lob tear gas in til the guy surrenders, you often have the luxury of not killing the suspect. This is as opposed to a patrol officer whose first line of defense is accurate fire because his car is a tin can, and his vest only covers a small % of his body and has major weaknesses.

              I still think this anti-police fervor is just a fad. Unfortunately, pretty soon someone is going to blow up a federal building or we're going to find out something new causes cancer or a child beauty queen is going to get kidnapped/murdered and the media will have something else to focus on.

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              • #8
                1928_tommy-350x440.jpg

                Yeah, cause cops in the 1920's didn't carry anything like military weapons
                Today's Quote:

                "The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has its limits."
                Albert Einstein

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                • #9
                  I also made a point in another thread, who is the force they employ when the regular police are overwhelmed?

                  The state's national guard.
                  Pete Malloy, "The only thing black and white about this job is the car."

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by mdrdep View Post
                    [ATTACH=CONFIG]12031[/ATTACH]

                    Yeah, cause cops in the 1920's didn't carry anything like military weapons
                    Extra Trivia points: Chicago PD was using Tommy guns 10 years before the United States Army.
                    ~Gun control has always been about punishing the people that didn't shoot anyone.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Grunt2LEO View Post
                      I hear people say things like "this used to be just a little Mayberry town and now it's changed."

                      Taking a closer look at any town big or small would reveal issues like child molestation, domestic violence and theft. There's simply no such thing as a true Mayberry-Norman Rockwell type place.
                      My town has about 1700 peeps, not much ever happens, in 16 years I remember two "front page" incidents, one was a murder about a year ago, I think it was a family dispute, not a stranger/victim incident.

                      The other happened about 10 years ago, a visiting teen from Oregon broke the glass door to the pharmacy to get in late one night, (no alarms or security gates etc here) he stole a computer (actually it was only the monitor, LOL) and some other junk. He then tried to sell the "computer" by knocking on doors and asking if the people who answered the doors wanted to buy it. He made the mistake of knocking on the door that happened to be the postmaster's house! He was immediately suspicious and called the police, the idiot was arrested.

                      People here leave cars running out front of the stores and supermarket, doors unlocked, bicycles, lawnmowers and all sorts of stuff out all over and nothing happens, but you are right, there's no Mayberry anywhere when nothing ever happens.

                      The thing is, when people recall how Mayberryish their town used to be long ago, they overlook two facts;

                      1) The population has increased dramatically
                      2) The makeup of the town's residence has changed as a result- age range, race, backgrounds, all of it.

                      Probably one of the worst things to happen for a town is sudden growth, Ames Iowa is rejoying now at how they reached a new milestone (50,000 I think it is now) and how it's rapidly grown in the last decade with new houses going up and all the rest, but with all that comes much greater expenses- the sewers, water lines, water capacity, garbage pickups, police, fire, ambulance, streets have to be expanded, new ones added, workload on the city council all have to be increased and so it goes.

                      With growth comes people from unknown backgrounds- they bring all their own baggage and that baggage may include racism, criminal history, a different religion, a different race and former living environment. Then you start to get next door neighbors who don't even know each others' names let alone anything else about them, and they don't want to know because people move in and move out a lot, especially in rentals.

                      Once you get that situation, then no one cares what happens over next door any more because they don't even know the peoples' names.

                      By the way, for those interested, there's an interesting series of old photos I found a little while ago;

                      Pictures of Daily Life of the New York Police Department in the 1970's

                      http://www.vintag.es/2013/08/picture...-new-york.html
                      Last edited by Sculptor; 08-25-2014, 11:13 PM.

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                      • #12
                        Mdrdep, that picture is perfect. The 20s and 30s saw police use actual military grade fully automatic weapons and in 1933 the FBI was given the authority to carry guns!

                        Am I confused? Aren't police departments paramilitary organizations? Isn't that how they were structured when they were first formed in the 1800s? What model do these critics propose to replace this "increasing militarization and para militarization"? Every now and then order has to be maintained and this requires a clear and strict chain of command.


                        And as had been brought up-after the civil authorities are expended, the military is the last option. The Civil Rights movement saw many uses of both L/E AND the Military to enforce the law.
                        Last edited by RGDS; 08-26-2014, 09:12 AM.
                        semper destravit

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                        • #13
                          When I was 4 years old (1962) I thought the Police were supposed to shoot me if I did anything wrong. Really. I thought that was a primary part of the job.

                          I also believed that the Police would save me if they possibly could.

                          Our Dad didn't let us watch TV much. But once while watching a western I saw 2 men fighting and one of them fell off a cliff. My 6-year-old older brother explained that the actor was a death penalty convict and the movie company had paid his family for him to take the cliff fall instead of the electric chair. I was a bit skeptical but not enough to ask Dad. So I provisionally supposed that was true.

                          Here's an image of Andy's gun:



                          You don't see him carrying it most of the time, but let's please not forget that rack of long guns, in his courthouse no less.

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                          • #14
                            Sculptor....Those photos brought back a lot of memories.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Sculptor View Post
                              Pictures of Daily Life of the New York Police Department in the 1970's

                              http://www.vintag.es/2013/08/picture...-new-york.html
                              Incredible photos.

                              Incidentally, based on some of those photos it looks like hair pulling was an arrest/control technique taught in the academy in those days. LOL. Or maybe it was all the same cop, and that was just his go-to move (which would be even more hilarious).



                              Last edited by allen_gamble; 08-26-2014, 11:07 AM.

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