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San Antonio Police Beat the Wrong Man - Just a Citizen Out on His Own Property

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  • San Antonio Police Beat the Wrong Man - Just a Citizen Out on His Own Property

    http://www.kens5.com/story/news/inve...onio/13014559/
    Roger Carlos was in the 10600 block of Westover Hills Boulevard taking photos of a building that will soon be home to his wife's medical practice, when he was approached by three officers around 2:30 p.m. The officers were identified as an undercover drug task force officer and two SAPD SWAT members.

    According to an SAPD incident report released to the I-Team, the officers had been pursuing a suspect nearby who was wanted on a felony warrant.

    Josue Gonzalez, 27, fled from police away from Loop 410 along the Highway 151 access road before he exited at Westover Hills and ditched his car in the parking lot of a restaurant. The restaurant is a few hundred feet from where Carlos was standing.

    "All three of them started beating me on the head," said Carlos, who still showed visible signs of the beating when he spoke with KENS 5 weeks after the incident. "It was unbelievable. I couldn't believe it was happening to me."

    Carlos said he was struck about 50 times, even though he complied with the officers' instructions and did not fight back.

    Shortly after being handcuffed and explaining to officers that he owned the property, a fourth officer approached and said the suspect was in custody nearby.

    Carlos was hospitalized after the beating. He was treated for a large gash above his eye and a broken tooth. Swelling of his head was so severe, doctors performed a CT scan of Carlos' head as well.

    "I could understand taking somebody down hard. I can understand the need for that and securing them, but that's not what happened. I got on the ground, I was no threat to anybody, I was fully compliant," said Carlos, who has no criminal history.

    "Clearly it was a case of mistaken identity," SAPD Chief William McManus said. "From the report that I've read, from the photo that I saw and from your description, I've not seen anything at this point that would indicate to me that anything out of order happened."

    McManus said officers reported that Carlos kept his hands underneath his body when he went to the ground, and officers had no idea if Carlos had a weapon.

    Now I'm a LEO myself and I'm usually very pro-law enforcement when it comes to things like this, but this is inexcusable. It's bad enough that an innocent citizen was apparently gang-tackled to the ground and beaten bloody, but the chief's comments are what really sends it over the top.

    "McManus said officers reported that Carlos kept his hands underneath his body when he went to the ground, and officers had no idea if Carlos had a weapon." So when the cops are ignorant of the facts, anything goes, and citizens beware? Because that's apparently the First Rule of Policing.

    So in the world according to Chief McManus, when a citizen is unexpectedly and unjustly tackled and beaten by the police, all innocent people should have the presence of mind to fall flat on their face, arms and legs splayed wide open. As he was getting beaten, Carlos should have been considerate enough to see the police point of view here. His main concern should have been for their safety, not his own. Obviously, only guilty and dangerous people attempt to break the fall with their hands, or clutch at the places on their bodies that have just been struck with blows, thereby justifying even more blows.

    McManus' perspective-- that an innocent man set upon by police required a beating because he didn't appreciate his duty to react in a manner that put the officers' safety first, is the stuff of insanity. After all, mistakes happen, but the cops weren't harmed, and that's all that really matters. Right, Chief?
    Last edited by BTR1701; 07-30-2014, 11:10 PM.

  • #2
    Pretty sure there's a bunch that isn't being released about it that he was doing other than "complying". Also as for the CT scan seeming like a big deal.... here anyone that complains of a head or neck injury gets a CT scan.

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    • #3
      Originally posted by Cannady View Post
      Pretty sure there's a bunch that isn't being released about it that he was doing other than "complying".
      And you're "pretty sure" of that exactly how?

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by BTR1701 View Post
        And you're "pretty sure" of that exactly how?
        Fair enough.. but why are you so quick to believe the "I-team" news story. Haven't you ever been on a call and then seen the new story the next day, and you're saying "That's not even close to what happened. Where are they getting this information?"

        Could the SAPD have F-ed up? Sure. Maybe they had tunnel vision as they were in fresh pursuit of the suspect and they made a horrible mistake. But also maybe the innocent guy decided to argue and resist rather than comply with commands.

        I don't think any LEO would say that cops never screw up. Sometimes good cops screw up majorly and often lose their jobs. But if there's one thing I've learned on stories like this, it's that the media usually doesn't have a clue what happened and just fills in the gaps with speculation.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Cannady View Post
          Also as for the CT scan seeming like a big deal.... here anyone that complains of a head or neck injury gets a CT scan.
          I once arrested a guy using no more force than an arm bar. The guy claimed my partner and I punched him in the head and stomach multiple times. Fortunately the entire incident happened directly in front of my camera. My supervisor laughed when he watched the video as compared to the complaint being made. Nonetheless, the guy was transported to the hospital and received a CT scan and Xrays (all at the expense of the taxpayer).

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          • #6
            I had a guy claim I shot at him. Had all these big wigs counting rounds and sniffing the barrel of my gun.LOL
            Last edited by BNWS; 08-01-2014, 02:52 PM. Reason: expanded

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            • #7
              Carlos said he complied with officer's instructions and did not resist. Chief said he kept his arms under neath him and was therefore non compliant. Someone has their facts out of whack.
              Today's Quote:

              "The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has its limits."
              Albert Einstein

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by mdrdep View Post
                Carlos said he complied with officer's instructions and did not resist. Chief said he kept his arms under neath him and was therefore non compliant. Someone has their facts out of whack.
                Kind of like videos of the guys who are violently fighting the cops trying to take them into custody, all while screaming, "I am not resisting!"
                Going too far is half the pleasure of not getting anywhere

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by BTR1701 View Post
                  And you're "pretty sure" of that exactly how?
                  Because I generally don't throw folks under the bus until there's proof that they did something wrong. Something about most cops being good cops and that the media will do literally anything they can get away with to get more viewers or hits on their web sites. Sorry, us local and state cops must just have more faith in our fellow officers than the federal counterparts. Most of your posts in recent history are MMQBing officers on the street.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by mdrdep View Post
                    Carlos said he complied with officer's instructions and did not resist. Chief said he kept his arms under neath him and was therefore non compliant. Someone has their facts out of whack.
                    Originally posted by L-1 View Post
                    Kind of like videos of the guys who are violently fighting the cops trying to take them into custody, all while screaming, "I am not resisting!"
                    I'll say this - I've seen plenty of arrests happen, both in real life and on video. And I would hate to be the final judge of who was and who was not resisting because their hands were underneath their bodies. Some of them absolutely are resisting, but in a lot of the cases I've seen, you got one officer above the head with a knee in his neck and 2 others with their full weight planted on his back, or some variation of that, usually involving multiple officers piling on the guy. It's kinda hard to do anything in that position other than lay there, so how is the guy supposed to get their arms free in order to comply?

                    Reagrding the story, I'd like to know the full story before I pass judgment.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Probably Would not have happened if the guy would have just gave them his ID instead of running away.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by JustAJ View Post
                        I'll say this - I've seen plenty of arrests happen, both in real life and on video. And I would hate to be the final judge of who was and who was not resisting because their hands were underneath their bodies. Some of them absolutely are resisting, but in a lot of the cases I've seen, you got one officer above the head with a knee in his neck and 2 others with their full weight planted on his back, or some variation of that, usually involving multiple officers piling on the guy. It's kinda hard to do anything in that position other than lay there, so how is the guy supposed to get their arms free in order to comply?

                        Reagrding the story, I'd like to know the full story before I pass judgment.
                        I don't know exactly what your connection is to law enforcement, but when you say you've SEEN plenty of arrests happen, have you actually been hands-on during these arrests?
                        This might sound like hogwash to you, but when you are affecting an arrest you can usually "feel" whether or not the person is resisting. I don't know if I'm explaining it clearly but when you go hands-on, in a way you become very connected with the person. You can feel their muscles tensing and you can also feel when they've given up. When someone has given up it is very easy to get their arms out from under them.
                        But you're right.. to an outside observer it is unfortunately very hard to judge whether or not someone is resisting.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by JustAJ View Post
                          I'll say this - I've seen plenty of arrests happen, both in real life and on video. And I would hate to be the final judge of who was and who was not resisting because their hands were underneath their bodies. Some of them absolutely are resisting, but in a lot of the cases I've seen, you got one officer above the head with a knee in his neck and 2 others with their full weight planted on his back, or some variation of that, usually involving multiple officers piling on the guy. It's kinda hard to do anything in that position other than lay there, so how is the guy supposed to get their arms free in order to comply?

                          Reagrding the story, I'd like to know the full story before I pass judgment.
                          Well until you have experienced a fighting with someone who does not want to go to jail, come back and make those statements again.

                          I'd like to sit back for three minutes and watch what you do for a living. Then I'll tell you how to do it better.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by BTR1701;3502390................................... .[B
                            Now I'm a LEO myself and I'm usually very pro-law enforcement [/B]when it comes to things like this, but this is inexcusable. It's bad enough that an innocent citizen was apparently gang-tackled to the ground and beaten bloody, but the chief's comments are what really sends it over the top.

                            "McManus said officers reported that Carlos kept his hands underneath his body when he went to the ground, and officers had no idea if Carlos had a weapon." So when the cops are ignorant of the facts, anything goes, and citizens beware? Because that's apparently the First Rule of Policing.

                            So in the world according to Chief McManus, when a citizen is unexpectedly and unjustly tackled and beaten by the police, all innocent people should have the presence of mind to fall flat on their face, arms and legs splayed wide open. As he was getting beaten, Carlos should have been considerate enough to see the police point of view here. His main concern should have been for their safety, not his own. Obviously, only guilty and dangerous people attempt to break the fall with their hands, or clutch at the places on their bodies that have just been struck with blows, thereby justifying even more blows.

                            McManus' perspective-- that an innocent man set upon by police required a beating because he didn't appreciate his duty to react in a manner that put the officers' safety first, is the stuff of insanity. After all, mistakes happen, but the cops weren't harmed, and that's all that really matters. Right, Chief?
                            Hmm? Oh, I suppose I could be wrong......but after doing a small amount of analysis I'd just say this: "You're a cop? My F***ing ***!....and if by some travesty you are (uh, hemm) you don't ever need to back me up....just go keep trying to get hired at the local ACLU."

                            BRT, you don't sound like any cop I ever met....ANYWHERE! You sound like a troll pretender who never made an arrest for shoplifting let alone a felony-eluding warrant arrest. The most koolaid drinking wannabe doesn't even sound like you. Oh, and if you happen to work at a LEO department as a janitor it still doesn't make you a LEO.

                            .....and if you are a troll in a cop uniform I hope they find you and fire you. XO!
                            Last edited by Langford PR; 08-02-2014, 04:32 PM.
                            Harry S. Truman, (1884-1972)
                            “Never kick a fresh turd on a hot day.”

                            Capt. E.J. Land USMC,
                            “Just remember – life is hard. But it’s one hell of a lot harder if you’re stupid.

                            George Washington, (1732-1799)
                            "I hope I shall possess firmness and virtue enough to maintain what I consider the most enviable of all titles, the character of an honest man."

                            Originally posted by Country_Jim
                            ... Thus far, I am rooting for the zombies.

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                            • #15
                              This has happened to me on several occasions when we start beating some guy for no apparent reason, then realize we should have been beating the guy on the next block over for no reason instead.

                              Oh, and riddle me this, Mr. I'm LE, when was the last time you've heard an arrestee tell a TV station, "I ran from the Police, refused to do what they said, then fought with them when they tried to cuff me?"
                              Last edited by ChiTownDet; 08-02-2014, 07:19 PM.

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