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  • Honest opinions...

    In our local weekly paper today there was the headline stating this county has the third highest meth arrest rate in the entire state. Report goes on to say how many repeat offenders there are for it, mostly from probation revocation cases. The jail here is full to capacity. These aren't possession, delivering or manufacturing arrests, they are from hot UAs from those on probation! Hasn't been an actual bust here in a couple of years.

    My opinion, and it's just that, an opinion, is that the jail time and longer probations and so on are not working at all, so instead of giving jail time, send them straight to inpatient treatment for no less than 90 days for 2nd probation revocation and longer if violated again. Seems punishment isn't working at all or even a threat to most of them.

    Since addictions are an illness, wouldn't it make sense to treat it and if all else fails, then punish?
    I'm old......that's all.

  • #2
    Who pays for that and what inpatient treatment facility are they going to?!?!

    If it is a locked facility that they can't leave from until it is over.... That starts to sound a lot like a 4 letter word that starts with J...
    Last edited by RGDS; 05-30-2014, 12:59 AM. Reason: Autocorrect
    semper destravit

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    • #3
      Insurance, parents if they can, or make them sell something they own. Make them work 8 hours a day in the facility to pay for it and do treatment in evening hours even. There are quite a few inpatient treatment centers in the state and they are monitored but not actually "locked" down. No, they can't leave until they have completed the program with a successful end but jail offers no therapy at all. If inpatient treatment facilities aren't working, then why have them?

      In jail they can read, watch tv, sleep, make phone calls, have visits from family and friends and stay clean because they have to but are given no skills on how to stay clean!

      I sure don't have the answers or solutions but still feel treatment should be tried since it's evident jail isn't taking care of the problem!
      I'm old......that's all.

      Comment


      • #4
        So, we're holding somebody against their will in a facility, whether or not you call it jail, and then we have to tell people that they have to work? What if they don't want to? If they don't, who is going to make them?

        How many families have the resources to set aside covering those types of issues on a moments notice? How many are willing to help? Would a state need to force some families to help? Should we force other adults, who may or may not be a stranger to the patient, to be financially responsible just because they share a last name?

        I'm not saying alternatives are a bad idea. What I am saying is that this is a complex issue with many sub-sections, branches and roadblocks. This could be the longest thread in our forums and we still wouldn't have a viable solution.

        Food for thought!
        Super Secret Ninja Squirrel
        "SSNS"


        The views expressed in the above post are the sole opinion of the author and do not reflect any official position by the author's employer and/or municipality.

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        • #5
          SSNS nailed with that last line – this could triple the Monty thread and be equally illuminating, and we still wouldn't have even a slightly decent solution. Rehabs at the level you describe and the minimum of what's needed for a hardcore meth head are already in the five digit price range. Making it mandatory for so many would skyrocket the price and the profit for the unscrupulous ones.

          And if you could get eight hours of decent work out of them each day, especially in that situation, they probably wouldn't be where they are in life to start with.
          "Snort-laughter is the best medicine"
          ----- Mussel Bound


          Don't forget to laugh today. The more implausible it seems, the more you need to.

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          • #6
            Friendly fyi, you may be seeking honest opinions, but in my experience when honesty is mentioned upfront, what follows or what is hoped for is actually anything but. People who ask for honest opinions of something important to them often don't like or appreciate when it isn't flattering.
            And when somebody asks if you want the truth, says they are about to tell you the truth, or starts with "Truthfully,...''' or "Honestly,..." it is as close to a 100 percent guarantee as you can get that what follows is brown, fragrant and steaming.

            I'm not calling you a liar!!!, and you probably actually do want to know if this isn't a perfect solution and why not, but with that lead in I'm guessing a lot of eyes rolled, neck hairs tingled and male bovine feces detectors pinged loud enough to break the sound barrier.

            Truth and honesty should be the default setting, not needing a "this time, I want..." qualifier.
            Last edited by MargeGunderson; 05-30-2014, 02:59 AM. Reason: ocd
            "Snort-laughter is the best medicine"
            ----- Mussel Bound


            Don't forget to laugh today. The more implausible it seems, the more you need to.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by wyofirebirdbaby View Post
              Insurance, parents if they can, or make them sell something they own. Make them work 8 hours a day in the facility to pay for it and do treatment in evening hours even.
              I would say its safe to assume most offenders do not have insurance.

              At this "stage" most addicts have either drawn family into the web of addiction or have alienated them through their use, abuse, theft, etc that they are far from wanting or able to help.

              You would need a compelling reason to force someone to liquidate personal property to pay a debt that has not yet accrued, in this case the bill for treatment. Even then I see no court ordering someone to sell (remember these are drug addicts who likely sold everything they once owned twice over) their stuff in this context.

              While you have all levels of addicts- some of whom may be high functioning, this begs the question as to what type of work they would have to perform, and to what standard. What if they were unable to perform meaningful labor or their labor was sub par?

              And you do know Indentured Servitude was outlawed a few years ago, and even then if was for those who owed a debt, not those who would owe a debt.


              Originally posted by wyofirebirdbaby View Post
              There are quite a few inpatient treatment centers in the state and they are monitored but not actually "locked" down. No, they can't leave until they have completed the program with a successful end but jail offers no therapy at all. If inpatient treatment facilities aren't working, then why have them?
              Because there is a degree of successful completion and they are a tool in a complex system of treatment.

              Originally posted by wyofirebirdbaby View Post
              In jail they can read, watch tv, sleep, make phone calls, have visits from family and friends and stay clean because they have to but are given no skills on how to stay clean!

              I sure don't have the answers or solutions but still feel treatment should be tried since it's evident jail isn't taking care of the problem!
              Bottom line is treatment works- when the addict wants to work towards it and stay clean. Unfortunately a good number of users relapse, but the reasons and triggers are as varied as the user.

              I am certainly open to new ideas, but there is more to locking someone into a treatment center and saying "get clean and while your at it, start cleaning".
              Last edited by sgt jon; 05-30-2014, 03:03 AM. Reason: forgot mom and dad
              Originally posted by SSD
              It has long been the tradition on this forum and as well as professionally not to second guess or Monday morning QB the officer's who were actually on-scene and had to make the decision. That being said, I don't think that your discussion will go very far on this board.
              Originally posted by Iowa #1603
              And now you are arguing about not arguing..................

              Comment


              • #8
                When garbage goes rotten I dispose of it, I don't keep it in storage and hope it somehow gets better, and somehow becomes useful. I throw it away because it is rotten.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Ignoring the Constitutional issues of your suggestion, most (if not all) of them don't have insurance, you can't make parents pay for it, and, if you sold everything most of these people owned, you might cover a day's worth of treatment.

                  Addiction is not an illness or a disease--it is a series of bad choices.
                  Last edited by just joe; 05-30-2014, 09:41 AM.

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                  • #10
                    We have next to Zero issues with meth, but heroin is boomin. Not a day goes by without an OD or arrest that involves the stuff. We have a huge retail district adjacent to 2 major highways, both of which run to Philly and Camden,nj.
                    Being a good street cop is like coming to work in a wet suit and peeing in your pants. It's a nice warm feeling, but you're the only one who knows anything has happened.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by MargeGunderson View Post
                      SSNS nailed with that last line – this could triple the Monty thread and be equally illuminating, and we still wouldn't have even a slightly decent solution. Rehabs at the level you describe and the minimum of what's needed for a hardcore meth head are already in the five digit price range. Making it mandatory for so many would skyrocket the price and the profit for the unscrupulous ones.

                      And if you could get eight hours of decent work out of them each day, especially in that situation, they probably wouldn't be where they are in life to start with.
                      What you said is very true and maybe some would prefer to sit in prison for 5 years over 90 days of treatment but to me, an 8 hour day is part of normal life and teaches them that work is a distraction from being able to go get high. They don't want to work? Then go do your 5 year prison term.

                      It is probably a subject with no solution but now that it's a serious problem at my back door I'd like to be part of a solution.
                      I'm old......that's all.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by MargeGunderson View Post
                        Friendly fyi, you may be seeking honest opinions, but in my experience when honesty is mentioned upfront, what follows or what is hoped for is actually anything but. People who ask for honest opinions of something important to them often don't like or appreciate when it isn't flattering.
                        And when somebody asks if you want the truth, says they are about to tell you the truth, or starts with "Truthfully,...''' or "Honestly,..." it is as close to a 100 percent guarantee as you can get that what follows is brown, fragrant and steaming.

                        I'm not calling you a liar!!!, and you probably actually do want to know if this isn't a perfect solution and why not, but with that lead in I'm guessing a lot of eyes rolled, neck hairs tingled and male bovine feces detectors pinged loud enough to break the sound barrier.

                        Truth and honesty should be the default setting, not needing a "this time, I want..." qualifier.
                        Understood every word and no answers I get are going to upset me because I also want to know, from those who are the experts, why or why not how I feel would or wouldn't work. No answer I get will be right or wrong to me, simply informative!
                        I'm old......that's all.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Tweakers pretty much can't quit. Rehab works, to varying degrees, for most other drugs but for some reason meth use is for life. I know a lot of people who quit drinking, a few former heroin addicts who have been clean for 10 to 20 years or so, but not a single meth user who could quit.

                          On top of that, rehab only works for people who want to be there. Court-ordered treatment doesn't do a thing for crooks who don't mind living like they do.
                          Government is not the solution to our problem; government is the problem. - Ronald Reagan

                          I don't think It'll happen in the US because we don't trust our government. We are a country of skeptics, raised by skeptics, founded by skeptics. - Amaroq

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Ain't this some liberal feel good crap.

                            You act as if these folks aren't educated as to the dangers of these drugs. I know we sat through many of classes in grade school that went over drugs and what they did. Lets not act like someone held these people down and forced a pill in their mouth, a needle in their arm, or a straw up their nose.

                            Pay for it? By making them work? Half aren't qualified or willing to mop a floor. Are you ready to defend the slavery debate because the NAACP and ACLU are willing to bring it. Make them sell something they own? They likely already have and have stolen from family, friends, and neighbors already to support their habit. Insurance? You know how most get insurance? They work. A drug addict doesn't work.

                            And probably the greatest issue of all which you would know if you had researched the topic or even have half a day of experience on the topic is YOU CANT FORCE THEM TO WANT TO STOP. Addicts only stop because they decided to and got the help. You can make them sit through classes all day for 10 weeks and until they make up their mind they are done they will re-use.

                            There is no simple or cheap fix here....but forcing them into expensive medical care on the back of the tax payer isn't at the top of the list here.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Here is how we deal with meth-
                              Have go-getter drug officers to keep the pressure up.
                              Make it hard to obtain ingredients by working with local retailers.
                              Analyze pseudoephedrine sale databases (if such laws exist in your JD). Use the data to arrest smurfs at the first chance.
                              This pressure will send them to somewhere else, hopefully outside your JD- problem solved for you locally!!
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