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Two recent stories in the media about Islam & the police (Oklahoma & Kansas)

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  • Two recent stories in the media about Islam & the police (Oklahoma & Kansas)

    In Oklahoma, a police Captain was ordered to attend an event at a local mosque. The event called itself "Law Enforcement Appreciation Day". That sounds reasonable enough, but the Captain looked into it:

    "There was no agenda on the invitation flyer—nor was one created by City police officials—for the invited officers to discuss crime or crime related issues of any kind. Consequently, the Islamic event was not a function of what is known as “Community Policing,” nor did this event involve a “call for service.” In sum, it was a private event hosted by an Islamic religious organization."

    and refused to attend, based on his religious beliefs, convictions, and conscience. He was then punitively transferred, subjected to an IA investigation, etc:

    http://pamelageller.com/2014/05/tent...ic-event.html/

    In Kansas, a Sheriff canceled his department's planned participation in an anti-terrorism training course, at the last minute, in response to pressure from an Islamic group called CAIR (who has previously had at least 5 of its employees and board members "arrested, convicted, deported, or otherwise linked to terrorism-related charges and activities"):

    http://www.examiner.com/article/kans...o-muslim-group

    At one time, the California chapter of CAIR had this poster on its website, saying: "BUILD A WALL OF RESISTANCE - DON'T TALK TO THE F.B.I.":


    http://www.jihadwatch.org/2011/01/ca...o-noticed-that
    https://www.thereligionofpeace.com/TROP.jpg

    List of Islamic terror attacks in the last 30 days

  • #2
    [QUOTE=Max K;3470203]In Oklahoma, a police Captain was ordered to attend an event at a local mosque. The event called itself "Law Enforcement Appreciation Day". That sounds reasonable enough, but the Captain looked into it:

    http://pamelageller.com/2014/05/tent...ic-event.html/

    I don't think it happened as portrayed in the comments you posted.

    I was required when I was working to attend many events that were held at various religious organizations evem though I have zero belief in religion. Bottom line I attended.

    This is what I read about the event and Captain Fields.

    In 2011, the Islamic Society of Tulsa organized a Law Enforcement Appreciation Day to show its gratitude for protection provided after threats to its mosque. As part of its longstanding community-policing initiative, the Tulsa Police Department requested some of its officers to attend, as they had for hundreds of other outreach events hosted by various religious organizations over the years.

    One officer – Captain Paul Fields – refused, however, claiming his attendance would pose a "moral dilemma." Even when in uniform, Fields argued, he had a "duty to proselytize" anyone who doesn't share his Christian beliefs. Despite his supervisors' assurances that no one at the event would be required to participate in any religious observations or express or adopt any beliefs, and despite their offers that he send a subordinate in his place, Fields wouldn't follow orders.
    Retired

    Comment


    • #3
      [QUOTE=retired;3470223]
      Originally posted by Max K View Post
      One officer – Captain Paul Fields – refused, however, claiming his attendance would pose a "moral dilemma." Even when in uniform, Fields argued, he had a "duty to proselytize" anyone who doesn't share his Christian beliefs. Despite his supervisors' assurances that no one at the event would be required to participate in any religious observations or express or adopt any beliefs, and despite their offers that he send a subordinate in his place, Fields wouldn't follow orders.
      I don't believe any officer should be proselytizing on the job, regardless of his/her personal beliefs. That said, I recall how the chief of my agency had an officer attend role call sessions immediately after "9/11" so that he could inform personnel that the terrorists responsible shouldn't be looked at as mainstream believers in Islam. When asked about news reports showing celebrations in the streets by Palestinians (after the fall of the World Trade Center Towers), the officer suggested that "those who run the media" used "old" footage for political reasons and that the alleged actions never occurred.

      Who was this guy talking about when he described these media moguls???
      "I'm not fluent in the language of violence, but I know enough to get around in places where it's spoken."

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by retired View Post
        One officer – Captain Paul Fields – refused, however, claiming his attendance would pose a "moral dilemma." Even when in uniform, Fields argued, he had a "duty to proselytize" anyone who doesn't share his Christian beliefs.
        Hmm. That's an interesting twist to the story, the idea that Captain Fields is the one doing the proselytizing (rather than the mosque). I searched the recent 27-page ruling by the 10th Circuit Court of Appeals (linked below), but could not find anything in there about any such proselytizing activity by Captain Fields. What is the source for that?

        https://www.aclu.org/sites/default/f...r._opinion.pdf
        https://www.thereligionofpeace.com/TROP.jpg

        List of Islamic terror attacks in the last 30 days

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Max K View Post
          Hmm. That's an interesting twist to the story, the idea that Captain Fields is the one doing the proselytizing (rather than the mosque). I searched the recent 27-page ruling by the 10th Circuit Court of Appeals (linked below), but could not find anything in there about any such proselytizing activity by Captain Fields. What is the source for that?

          https://www.aclu.org/sites/default/f...r._opinion.pdf

          Do you think that I fabricated it? get real!

          This is from the transcript of the District Court.

          As a Christian, I have a duty to proselytize the Gospel of Jesus Christ. I also have a duty to repent for my sins and I have a duty to increase my relationship and my personal relationship with the Lord through the Scripture and good deeds....

          I have a duty as a Christian to proselytize to people that aren't of my faith. And when I come to work, I don't presume to know someone's religion. It doesn't enter into the question when I'm providing a police call for service. I'm there to provide a specific police service.
          Last edited by retired; 05-25-2014, 06:53 PM. Reason: Changes
          Retired

          Comment


          • #6
            I'm putting these up for reference:

            The District Court transcript from 3-23-11 (24 pages, pdf): http://www.americanfreedomlawcenter....39c5b33c4e.pdf

            The Court of Appeals transcript from 5-22-14 (27 pages, pdf):
            https://www.aclu.org/sites/default/f...r._opinion.pdf
            https://www.thereligionofpeace.com/TROP.jpg

            List of Islamic terror attacks in the last 30 days

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Max K View Post
              I'm putting these up for reference:

              The District Court transcript from 3-23-11 (24 pages, pdf): http://www.americanfreedomlawcenter....39c5b33c4e.pdf

              The Court of Appeals transcript from 5-22-14 (27 pages, pdf):
              https://www.aclu.org/sites/default/f...r._opinion.pdf
              I don't know what to tell you. If you think I fabricated it, think that, I don't really care what you think. End of discussion as far as I am concerned.
              Retired

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Max K View Post

                The Court of Appeals transcript from 5-22-14 (27 pages, pdf):
                https://www.aclu.org/sites/default/f...r._opinion.pdf
                When I see the initials of a terrorist organization listed as a reference.....that is an automatic disregard.
                September 11, 2001 - All gave some, some gave all. Never forget -- Never forgive.......... RIP Brothers and Sisters.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by So Fla Cop View Post
                  When I see the initials of a terrorist organization listed as a reference.....that is an automatic disregard.
                  Agreed

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Max K View Post
                    I'm putting these up for reference:

                    The District Court transcript from 3-23-11 (24 pages, pdf): http://www.americanfreedomlawcenter....39c5b33c4e.pdf

                    The Court of Appeals transcript from 5-22-14 (27 pages, pdf):
                    https://www.aclu.org/sites/default/f...r._opinion.pdf
                    Max,

                    The following is taken directly from the OPINION AND ORDER of
                    GREGORY K. FRIZZELL, District Judge.
                    United States District Court, N.D. Oklahoma.
                    December 13, 2012.

                    Fields asserts attendance at the Appreciation Day event was mandatory until he complained, when it then became voluntary. Defendants deny attendance was mandatory unless there were insufficient officers willing to attend. (Doc. #49 at 3).
                    Fields asserts his objection to attendance was based upon his religious beliefs. Fields describes the specific religious belief at issue:

                    As a Christian, I have a duty to proselytize the Gospel of Jesus Christ. I also have a duty to repent for my sins and I have a duty to increase my relationship and my personal relationship with the Lord through the Scripture and good deeds....

                    I have a duty as a Christian to proselytize to people that aren't of my faith. And when I come to work, I don't presume to know someone's religion. It doesn't enter into the question when I'm providing a police call for service. I'm there to provide a specific police service.
                    Retired

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by retired View Post
                      Max,

                      The following is taken directly from the OPINION AND ORDER of
                      GREGORY K. FRIZZELL, District Judge.
                      United States District Court, N.D. Oklahoma.
                      December 13, 2012.
                      Thank you. I don't know my way around court documents. I thought there was one document at the end of a trial, and that document contains everything you need to know up to that point. Apparently, there are other documents, not listed in any obvious place, and you have to know how to look for them, where to look for them, how to read them, how they fit in with the whole case, etc., and I'm not familiar with such things. I understand there is another appeal in progress.
                      https://www.thereligionofpeace.com/TROP.jpg

                      List of Islamic terror attacks in the last 30 days

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        More information on the canceled anti-terrorism course, including a brief phone interview with John Guandolo, the former FBI agent who was going to give the training: http://gopthedailydose.com/2014/05/2...rism-training/

                        [edit]: Here is how CAIR celebrates Memorial Day: http://m.clarionproject.org/analysis...ps-merit-honor
                        Last edited by Max K; 05-26-2014, 08:12 PM.
                        https://www.thereligionofpeace.com/TROP.jpg

                        List of Islamic terror attacks in the last 30 days

                        Comment

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