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  • Carotid Restraint Hold

    I stumbled across an article that says how effective and safe that hold is. Here it is: http://www.policemag.com/channel/pat...d-control.aspx

    I'm wondering if it's really that safe to use as some people say, including the author of this article? I remember I read somewhere a while ago that the carotid hold shouldn't be used on extremely violent and especially on people on drugs cause it can easily lead to a broken neck. Is that true?

    Also if I remember correctly, lots of agencies forbid or permit the use of the carotid hold only when deadly force is justified. Why is that?

    If you want to share, what is your agency policy regarding the choke hold and have you ever used it while on duty?

  • #2
    The carotid is one of the most effective, and safest for the suspect, control techniques. There is almost no chance of death. The suspect is also at virtually no risk of a broken neck. The chiefs who are against it are stuck decades in the past and not professional enough to keep up to date with the most current training. They owe it to their officers to be up to the minute.
    Government is not the solution to our problem; government is the problem. - Ronald Reagan

    I don't think It'll happen in the US because we don't trust our government. We are a country of skeptics, raised by skeptics, founded by skeptics. - Amaroq

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    • #3
      Originally posted by ateamer View Post
      The carotid is one of the most effective, and safest for the suspect, control techniques.
      Absolutely! Get the training on this and understand it thoroughly, before you apply it.

      “Truth is not what you want it to be; it is what it is, and you must bend to its power or live a lie.”

      Miyamoto Musashi

      “Life Is Hard, But It's Harder When You're Stupid”

      George V. Higgins (from The Friends of Eddie Coyle)

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      • #4
        It varies agency to agency. Administrators are scared of the hold because you are effectively cutting off blood to the suspect's brain. If you maintain the hold after the suspect passes out for too long, it can lead to great bodily injury and possibly death.

        HOWEVER, if an officer is trained in the technique and applies it correctly, it is extremely effective and totally safe. In learning the technique in the military, we actually applied the hold until our partners passed out. We learned what it feels like to have it done and to do it. Again, when applied correctly it is totally safe.

        It is unfortunate that some agencies limit its use in the field. It all comes to down to liability for the department.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by TheTick
          According to our Use Of Force Policy, we are specifically forbidden from using any type of neck restraint unless Deadly Force is authorized.
          Yeah, pinhead administrators generally tend to think of 'choke holds' (air chokes); they start trembling and tell us not to use anything resembling this technique.

          We tent to think RNC / LVNR (blood chokes) and see it as a viable, intermediate technique. IMHO, this is a valuable tool.

          “Truth is not what you want it to be; it is what it is, and you must bend to its power or live a lie.”

          Miyamoto Musashi

          “Life Is Hard, But It's Harder When You're Stupid”

          George V. Higgins (from The Friends of Eddie Coyle)

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by ateamer View Post
            The carotid is one of the most effective, and safest for the suspect, control techniques. There is almost no chance of death. The suspect is also at virtually no risk of a broken neck. The chiefs who are against it are stuck decades in the past and not professional enough to keep up to date with the most current training. They owe it to their officers to be up to the minute.
            We used it all the time in the '80's when I was in uniform. We called a "snot lock." If I recall correctly, one guy starting shooting snot when it was applied to him, thus our pet name. He recovered quickly without any further injury as did the many others we used it on.

            Apparently some cop somewhere misused it and someone died, which led to its (pretty much) universal prohibition.
            I’ll die with blue in my veins.

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            • #7
              If I am recalling correctly there was a d/b who died after an officer applied a carotid artery restraint on him in San Diego. The guy was later found to be under the influence of either pcp or cocaine (I believe the former), and died of asphyxiation. From what I recall I think I came to the conclusion at the time that the death was caused by the suspect thrashing about so much that he essentially changed the hold from focusing on the carotids to the esophagus. Because there was already a media frenzy over some shooting incidents around that time they campaigned against the use of choke holds (the media was too stupid & lazy to ascertain the difference between a carotid artery restraint & a choke hold). So naturally the political pressure forced SDPD & neighboring agencies to adopt the short-sighted policy of banning this technique.

              TheTick nailed it when he says that all this ban of carotid artery restraints does is force officers to adopt a level of force more likely to create injury & death. But this is what happens when politicians think they know more about street-level police tactics than those actually in the trenches. Simply disgusting!
              This Space For Rent

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              • #8
                If you want to share, what is your agency policy regarding the choke hold and have you ever used it while on duty?
                First and foremost, the carotid restraint is NOT a choke hold. That right there is a part of the problem. Applied correctly there is no compression of the airway. For us it falls within the range of assaultive / high risk.
                Today's Quote:

                "The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has its limits."
                Albert Einstein

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                • #9
                  Actually the carotid restraint is taught in the San Diego County Regional Academy. All new regional L. E. recruits attend this academy, with the exception being open enrollees attending academies at local community colleges. The use of the carotid is not frowned on at, in fact the carotid, if appropriate, is encouraged.

                  Originally posted by Pogue Mahone View Post
                  If I am recalling correctly there was a d/b who died after an officer applied a carotid artery restraint on him in San Diego. The guy was later found to be under the influence of either pcp or cocaine (I believe the former), and died of asphyxiation. From what I recall I think I came to the conclusion at the time that the death was caused by the suspect thrashing about so much that he essentially changed the hold from focusing on the carotids to the esophagus. Because there was already a media frenzy over some shooting incidents around that time they campaigned against the use of choke holds (the media was too stupid & lazy to ascertain the difference between a carotid artery restraint & a choke hold). So naturally the political pressure forced SDPD & neighboring agencies to adopt the short-sighted policy of banning this technique.

                  TheTick nailed it when he says that all this ban of carotid artery restraints does is force officers to adopt a level of force more likely to create injury & death. But this is what happens when politicians think they know more about street-level police tactics than those actually in the trenches. Simply disgusting!

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                  • #10
                    We are specifically prohibited from using neck holds. We can't even use pressure point holds on non violent resistance.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by California Deputy View Post
                      Actually the carotid restraint is taught in the San Diego County Regional Academy. All new regional L. E. recruits attend this academy, with the exception being open enrollees attending academies at local community colleges. The use of the carotid is not frowned on at, in fact the carotid, if appropriate, is encouraged.
                      I forgot to include the year of when that incident ocurred, which was around '83 or '85. I know it was banned by SDPD after the incident I wrote about. It sounds like the politicians/administrators at some point pulled their head out & reversed the policy. I've been out of the area for 16 years; while I've tried to keep up on news through the internet since then, it's possible that this cranial/rectal inversion was reversed during that time w/o my knowing it.
                      This Space For Rent

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                      • #12
                        I stand at least partially corrected. It appears the CAR was in use back in '92. The incident that I wrote of earlier doesn't seem to be findable on the internet (at least by the few terms I would think to use), so I'm stuck there. But I'd at least like to think that my CRS hasn't become so bad that I'm unable to remember things I used to know so well.

                        I'm at least grateful that officers down there have this tool available to them should circumstances requiring it's use arise.
                        This Space For Rent

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                        • #13
                          Still allowed for us; hell, we killed a guy with it a few years ago (nobody is talking, but the rumor is that it was applied incorrectly/left on too long), settled for a million dollars, and we're still allowed to use it (hence the rumor).

                          It's pretty awesome, but there is some paperwork involved anytime you even attempt it, and you'd better be able to articulate it.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Pogue Mahone View Post
                            I stand at least partially corrected. It appears the CAR was in use back in '92. The incident that I wrote of earlier doesn't seem to be findable on the internet (at least by the few terms I would think to use), so I'm stuck there.
                            Hampton v. City of San Diego was from around '94. It alleged negligent training.
                            Nava v. California Highway Patrol resulted in an injunction against CHP using it "except when necessary to prevent death or serious bodily harm" in '94. I think a federal appeals court overturned that (Nava v. City of Dublin) in '97.
                            Miami, Phoenix, and NYC have had cases about "choke holds," too.
                            <http://www.aele.org/law/Digests/civil13.html>

                            I'm at least grateful that officers down there have this tool available to them should circumstances requiring it's use arise.
                            Yep. It's pretty much the same with the TASER. Fat Al Sharpton and Associates always seem to somehow overlook medical findings that the deceased was full up to his eyeballs with certain recreational pharmaceuticals.
                            --
                            Capital Punishment means never having to say "you again?"

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                            • #15
                              Some of the biggest flap over "choke holds" came about from statements made by then LAPD chief Gates......
                              Today's Quote:

                              "The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has its limits."
                              Albert Einstein

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