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  • #31
    Originally posted by Ex Army MP View Post
    I disagree. Not everyone who puts another in fear of death is necessarily a criminal or intends to kill that person. But obviously if the person in fear doesn't know this and has a legitimate fear of death, then they need should be allowed to use deadly force. However, if it's pretty clear that you have an opportunity to get away, you should be required to take it. Whether you actually could have escaped is something that can be litigated.

    Let's take this scenario: You get into a road rage incident with someone twice your size because you cut him off. You pull into a store parking lot and he gets out and is coming toward your car. Could be to break you in half or it could be to tell you what a jackarse you are. You, nonetheless are scared you may die. You have two choices. One, shoot the guy or two, drive away. Let's assume that there is nothing blocking you from driving away and big guy has no chance to catch up to you. You should, and most people would, take off in your vehicle. However, the way the law is written, even if you could get away, you're given the option of doing what you want. Seems like a recipe for Billy Bad Arse who has been dying to off someone to do so.

    Now, in your home, you should never have to retreat. I mean, do we really expect homeowners to leave their kids and family behind and run out their front doors? But I know of no place, Wyoming, NJ or anywhere else, that requires you to do so.
    I disagree. I should never be legally obligated to retreat when I am not breaking any laws. If your large-male character is advancing on me, I'm going to tell him to stop. If he doesn't, I'm going to pull my gun. And if he gets within arms reach, he's catching rounds to the chest. I'm not going to play the game of "just wait and see" what the 300 lb. angry man wants to do when he gets within two feet of me.

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    • #32
      A criminal doesn't legally own the streets because he is intent on committing a crime.

      A law abiding individual shouldn't have to flee a public place just because somebody else is breaking the law.
      "I am a Soldier. I fight where I'm told and I win where I fight." -- GEN George S. Patton, Jr.

      "With a brother on my left and a sister on my right, we face…. We face what no one should face. We face, so no one else would face. We are in the face of Death." -- Holli Peet

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      • #33
        The scenario posited is simply ridiculous. I have never seen a case where it was justified to shoot someone because they were being yelled at. I'm unaware of any law that justifies deadly force to combat verbal battery.

        The problem with most self-defense situations is that they happen much too quickly to have thought out means of escape. Life-saving choices that must occur in the blink of an eye will have the luxury of hours upon hours of investigation. If you enact a statute that requires someone to retreat whenever possible, you needlessly turn victims into criminals/suspects if an officer believes they had probable cause to believe a means of egress was available at the time, somehow believing prescience should have been present through the cognitive ability to see and use that escape.

        It's bullspit.
        NRA Life Member

        The police are the public and the public are the police; the police being only members of the public who are paid to give full time attention to duties which are incumbent on every citizen in the interests of community welfare and existence. - Sir Robert Peel

        Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin to slit throats. - H. L. Mencken

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        • #34
          Do what you have to do to survive.

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          • #35
            Shoot first ask questions later! I see most feel the same as I, thank you gentlemen for taking the time and responding!!
            Love all, trust a few. Do wrong to none - William Shakespeare
            Be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill everyone you meet.- James Mattis
            It is foolish and wrong to mourn the men who died. Rather we should thank God that such men lived. - Lt. Gen. George S. Patton

            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7cFL80PN3wA&sns=em

            Comment


            • #36
              Originally posted by Ex Army MP View Post
              I disagree. Not everyone who puts another in fear of death is necessarily a criminal or intends to kill that person. But obviously if the person in fear doesn't know this and has a legitimate fear of death, then they need should be allowed to use deadly force. However, if it's pretty clear that you have an opportunity to get away, you should be required to take it. Whether you actually could have escaped is something that can be litigated.

              Let's take this scenario: You get into a road rage incident with someone twice your size because you cut him off. You pull into a store parking lot and he gets out and is coming toward your car. Could be to break you in half or it could be to tell you what a jackarse you are. You, nonetheless are scared you may die. You have two choices. One, shoot the guy or two, drive away. Let's assume that there is nothing blocking you from driving away and big guy has no chance to catch up to you. You should, and most people would, take off in your vehicle. However, the way the law is written, even if you could get away, you're given the option of doing what you want. Seems like a recipe for Billy Bad Arse who has been dying to off someone to do so.

              Now, in your home, you should never have to retreat. I mean, do we really expect homeowners to leave their kids and family behind and run out their front doors? But I know of no place, Wyoming, NJ or anywhere else, that requires you to do so.
              Maybe the states that enact these laws are telling the morons who want to jump out of their cars and assault people over traffic incidents that they aren't welcome?

              The only time I've ever had to remove a carry weapon from its holster occurred during an incident similar to what you described; so, I have a rather strong sense of pride in my state's willingness to permit exactly such. The other individual involved left that scene in handcuffs with a DUI, and I went home unscathed. I'm no slouch, but this was not an individual I wanted to scuffle with.

              Comment

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