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Video of Shooting by Scottsdale PD

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  • Video of Shooting by Scottsdale PD

    Has anyone seen this video? I'm not sure if this is the right forum to post in, feel free to move it if it should be somewhere else. The New Times is an alternative newspaper, so keep that in mind when you read the article.

    http://blogs.phoenixnewtimes.com/val...ref=navigation

  • #2
    The video title seems anti-cop, but I do kind of agree that they shouldn't have opened fire on him if they were concerned with the baby's safety. He dropped her right on the ground, where she broke her skull. And the dragging across the street was added fuel to the fire...

    ...on the other hand, this video only shows the few seconds before the shooting. We don't know what threats he made against the child during the preceding 90-minute standoff. Could be that the officers felt that he was going to do something worse than hold her hostage at that moment, unless he was holding her up the entire time. We need more context.

    The dragging was definitely excessive, though.

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    • #3
      You also can't hear what if anything was said between the officers and the suspect. We don't know if he said he was about to kill the baby or what. Alot of information is missing.

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      • #4
        Originally posted by 42ndlatitude View Post
        The dragging was definitely excessive, though.
        Please, do explain how your experience and knowledge of these types of situations brought you to this conclusion...

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        • #5
          Impossible to MMQB effectively.....
          Everything rises or falls on leadership. Everything.
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          • #6
            Originally posted by 42ndlatitude View Post
            The dragging was definitely excessive, though.
            Ah yes... so it would have been better to let him lay there and bleed out. Because you can't bring the medics until the scene is secure....and it wasn't according to the info. They still had to search the residence etc.

            So drag him to the medics to render aid ASAP...or let him bleed out. And that is "excessive"? *Shakes his head*
            I disaprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it. -Voltaire

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Shaidon View Post
              Ah yes... so it would have been better to let him lay there and bleed out. Because you can't bring the medics until the scene is secure....and it wasn't according to the info. They still had to search the residence etc.

              So drag him to the medics to render aid ASAP...or let him bleed out. And that is "excessive"? *Shakes his head*
              Never said that he didn't need medical attention. Just that they didn't need to drag someone who's knees are bare across rough ground and asphalt for at least a hundred feet. One of the officers could have carried his legs and the other his upper body to avoid the whole torn-up knees aspect of it.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by 42ndlatitude View Post
                Never said that he didn't need medical attention. Just that they didn't need to drag someone who's knees are bare across rough ground and asphalt for at least a hundred feet. One of the officers could have carried his legs and the other his upper body to avoid the whole torn-up knees aspect of it.
                And then because of the way his spine was injured, carrying him by the arms and legs would have damaged him even more! Grounds to sue. And then because they KNEW that he had been shot in the torso, they had deliberately picked him up by the arms and legs to aggravate his injuries! They were using excessive force! I doesn't matter which way you spin it.

                I'm sorry. The only person I am going to combat carry like that is a fellow Officer. The Officers each had an arm under the suspect and were rushing him to get medical attention. They are carrying a SUSPECT. From a chaotic scene that is UNSECURED.

                They were rushing him as quickly as they could to get him medical attention. So very sorry he got a couple of boo boo bunnies on his knees.... What are you more concerned about? The GUNSHOT wounds to his torso, or scraping his knees?

                Yet again I will say "Excessive"? *shakes his head*
                Last edited by Shaidon; 08-17-2012, 08:37 AM.
                I disaprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it. -Voltaire

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by 42ndlatitude View Post
                  Never said that he didn't need medical attention. Just that they didn't need to drag someone who's knees are bare across rough ground and asphalt for at least a hundred feet. One of the officers could have carried his legs and the other his upper body to avoid the whole torn-up knees aspect of it.
                  I ask again, what is your personal experience in these sort of situations that gives you the credibility to speak on these matters?

                  Perhaps they should have whipped out that collapsible padded cot we all carry next to our comfy cushioned handcuffs. Would that make you feel warm and fuzzy inside?

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                  • #10
                    Well at least he was a paraplegic and probably didn't feel the dragging. I thought this was interesting

                    "Snow's ruling also blasted police for searching Hulstedt's home without a warrant after shooting him. The warrantless search wasn't justified and the officer who conducted it aren't immune from liability in the lawsuit, the judge ruled"

                    It seems like they had a right to search his house to me, but I'm no lawyer.

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                    • #11
                      Is nobody concerned about the baby he was holding above his head falling 6' to the ground? I don't give a crap about him being dragged and getting his knees hurt, he deserves a hell of a lot more for holding a baby as a hostage.

                      Since none of us know what was said right before the shots were fired we have to assume they had no choice left.

                      On the other hand he didn't have a gun/knife to the baby's head so... wouldn't rushing him and grabbing the baby seem a better option? It doesn't take a genius to figure out what's going to happen to the baby if you shoot the guy who's holding it above his head.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by RSGSRT View Post
                        Is nobody concerned about the baby he was holding above his head falling 6' to the ground? I don't give a crap about him being dragged and getting his knees hurt, he deserves a hell of a lot more for holding a baby as a hostage.

                        Since none of us know what was said right before the shots were fired we have to assume they had no choice left.

                        On the other hand he didn't have a gun/knife to the baby's head so... wouldn't rushing him and grabbing the baby seem a better option? It doesn't take a genius to figure out what's going to happen to the baby if you shoot the guy who's holding it above his head.
                        I agree with you, but this is all speculation since we don't know all the details. I will just throw this out there.....which is going to hurt the child worse...the perp dropping the kid or the perp throwing the child against the concrete/rocks head first with all of his strength? Just saying....They could probably articulate that if the perp threw the kid on the rocks/concrete head first, it would be likely to cause SBI or death.
                        I disaprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it. -Voltaire

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by TheTick
                          I highly doubt they would beanbag (that's what I think they did because he would have been leaking if hit by .223
                          Looks to me like a MP5... He was shot and paralized... so I don't think a bean bag round did that.
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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by 42ndlatitude View Post
                            Never said that he didn't need medical attention. Just that they didn't need to drag someone who's knees are bare across rough ground and asphalt for at least a hundred feet. One of the officers could have carried his legs and the other his upper body to avoid the whole torn-up knees aspect of it.
                            Wow. Just wow.
                            "You don't want the truth because, deep down in places you don't talk about at parties, you want me on that wall, you need me on that wall... I have neither the time, nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very freedom that I provide, and then questions the manner in which I provide it."

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                            • #15
                              When the guy is shot mulitple times in the back (justified BTW as far as I can see) who gives a rats *** about his knees. If I'm shot multiple times and the medics won't go near a certain area to treat me, by all means skin those B****es up!!!

                              On another note I think the from what I see the shooting was perfect timing because the guy appeared to be preparing (or threatening at least) to slam the baby with force (as opposed to dropping). I'd rather the baby be dropped then slammed with force which would almost surely cause very severe damage or most likely death.
                              Ignored: Towncop, Pulicords, TacoMac, Ten08

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