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  • Downright insulting...

    Ok sure I can understand gearing this towards civilian employees, but making this mandatory for the Border Patrol officers too?! And making no apologies as if to say it was a mistake? Stupid. Downright stupid and inconsiderate of the job these guys do every day.

    http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/06/29...urse-promotes/

    Border Patrol union blasts Homeland Security instructions to 'run away' and 'hide' from gunmen

    Border Patrol agents in Arizona are blasting their bosses for telling them, along with all other Department of Homeland Security employees, to run and hide if they encounter an "active shooter."

    It's one thing to tell civilian employees to cower under a desk if a gunman starts spraying fire in a confined area, say members of Tucson Local 2544/National Border Patrol Council, but to give armed law enforcement professionals the same advice is downright insulting. The instructions from DHS come in the form of pamphlets and a mandatory computer tutorial.

    “We are now taught in an ‘Active Shooter’ course that if we encounter a shooter in a public place we are to ‘run away’ and ‘hide’" union leader Brandon Judd wrote on the website of 3,300-member union local. “If we are cornered by such a shooter we are to (only as a last resort) become ‘aggressive’ and ‘throw things’ at him or her. We are then advised to ‘call law enforcement’ and wait for their arrival (presumably, while more innocent victims are slaughtered)."

    The FEMA-administered computer course, entitled “IS-907- Active Shooter: What You Can Do,” is a 45-minute tutorial that provides guidance to all employees on how to recognize indicators of possible workplace violence and what to do should their office be invaded by gunmen and focuses around three main options; either evacuate, hide out, or in dire circumstances, take action.

    MAIN POINTS OF THE "ACTIVE SHOOTER" TRAINING COURSE

    Evacuate: If there is an accessible escape path, attempt to evacuate the premises.

    Hide out: If evacuation is not possible, find a place to hide where the active shooter is less likely to find you.

    Take action: As a last resort, and only when your life is in imminent danger, attempt to disrupt and/or incapacitate the active shooter.

    Once the course is completed, employees are urged to download additional materials including a summary booklet and pocket-sized card outlining protocol, which was also handed out to employees two months ago.

    One DHS employee told FoxNews.com the instruction cards were handed out to employees six weeks ago. At the time, he assumed they were only for civilian employees, not armed law enforcement officers within the department, which oversees the U.S. Customs and Border Protection.

    "Requiring BP agents to follow the same steps is egregious,” he said.
    DHS officials maintain that the Active Shooter course was designed for all employees—civilian and law-enforcement officers-- and no one should rush into a situation where they, or others around them, could get hurt.

    “The Department of Homeland Security takes very seriously its responsibility to protect all of its employees from threats that may surface in the workplace,” U.S. Customs and Border Protection spokesman Michael Friel said in a written statement to FoxNews.com

    “CBP workforce training is designed to prepare all employees, including leaders, managers, supervisors, law enforcement personnel and non-law enforcement personnel, to understand their own roles and the roles of their fellow employees in responding to threats. In an active shooter scenario, employees are taught to take actions that keep them alive.”

    But members of Local 2544 say they are obligated to protect the public in such a situation, whether they are on duty or not. Given the instructions, some wonder if they would be disciplined for taking down a gunman in a situation like the Fort Hood shooting or the January, 2011 case in Casa Adobes, in which a deranged gunmen shot 19 people, including Democratic Rep. Gabrielle Giffords. Six people were killed.

    “It is always comforting to know that for those of us who carry a weapon when we are off-duty, if we should encounter such a situation, stop a shooter and save countless lives, we can look forward to being disciplined or fired by the Border Patrol because we should have run away to hide and then maybe thrown objects at the deranged killer instead of taking action and stopping him with a firearm,” the union local's website says.
    SCHP TCO

    Freemason

  • #2
    The Agents were so offended, they leaked this information, and it is going viral. They finally got so fed up with their administration that they are doing something about it.


    Extraordinarily Ordinary & Remarkably Unremarkable!

    "I bet you have an "Operator" patch on your gear"--CCCSD
    "Everyone has a purpose in life. Some people's purpose is to be the example of what NOT to do..."--tanksoldier

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    • #3
      Don't think too much analysis is required here. Merely consider what passes for 'leadership" at DHS, or for that matter at 1600 Pennsylvania Ave. When moral, ethical, and mental midgets are placed in charge, this is the result.

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      • #4
        Oh boy, if I followed that advice of running and hiding I'd be dead today. We are the protectors of those who can't protect themselves. Something some suit in an office with a college degree daddy paid for wouldn't, or can't, understand.

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        • #5
          From what people have posted here before, that actually is not too far from the usual protocol for an active shooter in a place like a mall or a school.

          Evacuate innocents
          Take cover until backup arrives

          Obviously each situation is different, but as a rule of thumb it makes sense to wait until there are enough officers to overcome the shooter, instead of just feeding them a steady stream of targets, one or two at a time. Border patrol is different because of how far away your backup could be.
          Last edited by Fëanor; 06-29-2012, 09:10 PM.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Fëanor View Post
            From what people have posted here before, that actually is not too far from the usual protocol for an active shooter in a place like a mall or a school.

            Evacuate innocents
            Take cover until backup arrives

            Obviously each situation is different, but as a rule of thumb it makes sense to wait until there are enough officers to overcome the shooter, instead of just feeding them a steady stream of targets, one or two at a time. Border patrol is different because of how far away your backup could be.
            I'm not arguing against basic defensive tactics, but to me this training is described as directing the officers to group themselves in with the civilian evacuees fleeing the scene, rather than staying and attempting to end the situation if they can.
            SCHP TCO

            Freemason

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Krell View Post
              I'm not arguing against basic defensive tactics, but to me this training is described as directing the officers to group themselves in with the civilian evacuees fleeing the scene, rather than staying and attempting to end the situation if they can.
              Nonsense, I'm sure the computerized training is crystal clear and is fully adequate for the Border Patrol

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              • #8
                I have actually taken this training course. I was not required to take it for my department but I took it because it looked interesting.

                I do not agree with it being required training for LE but in my opinion....

                I think CBP is trying to cover their butts if a active shooter situation were to take place and an CBP officer injuries a civilian in the process. Maybe CBP would try to say their officers were not trained to act that way if they were to be sued for the actions taken by a CBP LE member or maybe even use it as a firing tool.

                Just my .02 but who knows what goes on in the heads of some of the Police Administrators haha. Everyone looks for new "CYA" ideas.
                Last edited by HoldTheLine; 06-29-2012, 09:33 PM. Reason: Spelling... Ooops

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                • #9
                  Sounds like DHS "leaders" are taking a page from directives from CBSA's "leaders" (and no, CBSA BSO's on here, this is NOT a slam, nor even an inter-Agency "poke", towards you line-grunts!).
                  #32936 - Royal Canadian Mounted Police - 1975-10-27 / 2010-12-29
                  Proud Dad of #54266 - RCMP - 2007-02-12 to date
                  RCMP Veterans Association - Regina Division member
                  Mounted Police Professional Association of Canada - Associate (Retired) member
                  "Smile" - no!

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Fëanor View Post
                    From what people have posted here before, that actually is not too far from the usual protocol for an active shooter in a place like a mall or a school.

                    Evacuate innocents
                    Take cover until backup arrives

                    Obviously each situation is different, but as a rule of thumb it makes sense to wait until there are enough officers to overcome the shooter, instead of just feeding them a steady stream of targets, one or two at a time. Border patrol is different because of how far away your backup could be.
                    In a place like a mall or a school it is actually not advised to wait long for backup at all. If it's an active shooter, you need to stop them ASAP before they kill more people. We are trained to form small groups (2-3, or whoever is there right away) and go in.
                    In an active shooter situation you don't wait for all available officers or SWAT to arrive, if only you and one other officer arrive right away, you tactically enter and take care of the threat as soon as you can before they can kill more people. In an active shooter scenario, every second wasted is somebody being killed.

                    Evacuating and taking cover may be usual protocol for Security Officers or other, non law enforcement employees, but it is not the protocol for Law Enforcement. Hiding or waiting in an active shooter situation is not a good route to take.
                    Live with honor, and let not your death be born by the pallbearers of disgrace, cruelty, weakness, and fear.

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                    • #11
                      Why don't we let them across the borders and let them vote while we're at it... oh wait.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by rwandrie View Post
                        In a place like a mall or a school it is actually not advised to wait long for backup at all. If it's an active shooter, you need to stop them ASAP before they kill more people. We are trained to form small groups (2-3, or whoever is there right away) and go in.
                        In an active shooter situation you don't wait for all available officers or SWAT to arrive, if only you and one other officer arrive right away, you tactically enter and take care of the threat as soon as you can before they can kill more people. In an active shooter scenario, every second wasted is somebody being killed.
                        +1
                        Same here.
                        Look sharp, act sharp, be sharp.

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                        • #13
                          I know how I'd deal with an active shooter based on my training. I ain't looking to be the hero but I knew signing up for this gig that I would have to stand between the innocents and the criminals. That's my mindset now and that will be my mindset going into an active shooter should it (hopefully never) arrive.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Taylor13 View Post
                            Why don't we let them across the borders and let them vote while we're at it... oh wait.
                            I think I peed a little while laughing at this!
                            "We've reached a point where natural selection doesn't have a chance in hell of keeping up with the procreation of imbeciles." -- RSGSRT

                            Why is it acceptable for you to be an idiot, but not acceptable for me to point it out?

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Aerohead View Post
                              I think I peed a little while laughing at this!
                              A little?

                              Da' Professa' woke up Da' Trig, in da' bottom bunk...

                              He thought it was rain'in, until he smell't da' gas too....
                              Originally posted by mookster
                              Sully, usually I hafta glance over your posts cuz my brain would have issues with the imagery you portray, however with that one I get it. I agree one hundred percent with ya.
                              Originally posted by CityCopDC
                              I swear to god you are not human. I know a rogue VI when I see one.
                              Originally posted by OfficerDotCom
                              I think no one is probably happier than Sully and I that we ARE NOT the same person.(seriously thanking God for that one).
                              -Frank




                              Old Physicists neva' die, they just hop on a horsey and fly away inta' an infinitely massive black ho ...

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