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  • Peace Officers carring weapons on flights?

    I just read that the LAPD union has presented a letter stating that they should allow commissioned officer to carry weapons on flights. Well this was an idea that I had also but I have and idea that would make is safer. I think you should have to apply to the FAA. Tell them where you work and let them verify that you are and officer in good standing with your department and then get a special ID from the FAA that identifies you as a Peace Officer and will allow you to board a flight with your weapon but without listing it on the passenger roster. I would like to hear what others think of this idea.

  • #2
    There are issues with this the FAA will have. I think the FAA could train firearms instructors on carrying on flights. They could go back to their departments with issues such as identifying yourself in an emergency (don't want to be targeted by the Sky Marshall), what the airline and AM response will be to an emergency and your identifying yourself in one, and of course gun play. We will probably have to qualify with our duty weapon and frangible ammo (that you'll be required to use while on board). Once the FAA gets your training records they could issue you an endorsement card you keep with your credentials and gets you on board armed. The other trick is getting through security without being identified by a terrorist lookout (you'll be the first taken out on the plane before you can react if you get made badging yourself through the security checkpoint).

    I think these are easily worked out issues and the benefit to having armed off duty police on the aircraft would be enormous. I also think this could be a good issue to push and get HR 218 (nationwide conceal carry for off duty cops) passed.
    I intend to go in harm's way. -John Paul Jones

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    • #3
      I do not know if this is specific to Federal Agents or not, but we are allowed to carry our duty weapon with duty ammo on flights.

      After identifying myself as a LEO to the ticket agent, I am walked around security. I am the first to board the plane and am introduced to the flight attendents and the pilots.
      "Certainly there is no hunting like the hunting of man and those who have hunted men long enough and liked it, never really care for anything else therafter." --Hemingway

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      • #4
        Frangible ammo is not used by the sky Marshalls. They issue the Sig Sauer P226 with 115 grain STHP ammo.
        I know the movies show that a pin ***** through a window will allow a comercial airliner to decompress but that is not the case. Commercial airliners will hold cabin pressure with 4 to 8 windows totally GONE. And after that the decompression is slow enoght to get to a safe altitude.
        I fly with a sidearm frequently due to my job and I completed the FAA course for peace officers that fly commercial airlines armed. It is probably a good idea if the guidelines could be worked out.

        [ 10-03-2001: Message edited by: swatbwana ]
        Boo! Scared ya did'nt I

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        • #5
          Yes SPAin AZ it is only Federal Officers. We regular cops are not allowed to carry without special permission, letters etc. Just before I left a special Hi Tech Crimes Task Force we were getting sworn in as Deputy US Marshals so we could carry on board without have to have a letter from our sheriff etc. We did a lot of traveler cases and moved around the country quite a bit.
          Only the dead have seen the end of war! PLATO

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          • #6
            If the FAA isn't requiring special ammo it should be that much easier for us to carry.
            I intend to go in harm's way. -John Paul Jones

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            • #7
              For, as we ALL know, the feds are ALWAYS much more highly trained and proficient in the use of firearms. They are also much more responsible than us "local" cops.

              That's why they can carry on board and we can't.
              -Sparky

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              • #8
                I agree that Federal LEO should be granted this right over local agencies because...
                1) Feds have a set standard for hiring and firearms qualification.
                2) Locals (State, Sheriff, City etc.) can all have different standards and some may hire with little or no background checks.

                I don't agree with the sky marshal crap either, unless thay plan on putting 2 or more (healthy) guys per plane.
                IMO, I think they should give the pilots a little extra training and arm them.

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                • #9
                  I agree on locals carrying on planes..have the feds have never been in shoot outs or dont know to react in a gun battle..where a street cop will always have better instinct and experience....even in a crowded aircraft....maybe a special FAA firearms training course..that could be given yearly at a state level....

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by EPD209:
                    I agree on locals carrying on planes..have the feds have never been in shoot outs or dont know to react in a gun battle..where a street cop will always have better instinct and experience....even in a crowded aircraft....maybe a special FAA firearms training course..that could be given yearly at a state level....
                    I agree that your average cop will have better instincts but it wouldn't be just be your average cop allowed on these planes. They have places that hand out commissions just because you know the right person or donated to the right fund. You also have small towns that offer little or no training for their Officer(s).
                    How do you decide who is qualified and who isn't when all they have is a commission from poduk police department? The people at the airport or airline won't know if he is a veteran cop or the Mayors bro-in-law, all they will have to go by is that commission.

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                    • #11
                      In reference to Kaos, even the mayors brother in law on any of those planes, had he had a gun he could have done something. The Flight that crashed in PA, they didn't have anything and look what they did. In Texas all agencies large and small are all held to the same standards and training. I wend from a Dept. of 6 to one of 30 to one of 250 and guess what I was a peace officer in all of them and in all of them I finished FTO early because of one simple fact either your a cop or your not period!! It may still be back woods in Louisiana but not everywhere. Pretty small thinking on your part.

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                      • #12
                        IMHO opinion I think if the FAA is going to allow officers to carry on board then there should be some type of standardized mandatory firearms qualifacation.

                        Air Marshall have to meet some of the strictest qual scores in the biz, while we have all seen our share of officers that couldnt hit the 10 ring at 5 yards and are still passing the qualifactaion. Obviously there is a great disparity there, that disparity needs to be decreased before the FAA approves carry on aircrafts for LEO's!

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                        • #13
                          Whoa........ wait just a second.

                          I've already said I don't think just any cop should be able to carry on a plane, but this notion that feds are somehow better equipped to carry is being taken waaaaay to far.

                          You might be thinking of FBI, USMS or USSS, but there are a boatload of other federal agencies with gun carrying sworn officers that are no more a "cop" than some of the armed guards I see around here. Ok, they had to qualify at FLETC, big deal! And I'm sure that there is at least one Special Agent of the US Dept. of Education that is a better shot than I am, but I'll put the random deputy around here against the random Education Agent. Special Agents of Health and Human Services? How about the Dept. of Agriculture? Oh yeah, they're LEO's and get guns, but the training fairy did not endow them with magic powers just because their badge says United States on it.

                          For that matter, there are plenty of FBI agents that barely qualify, DEA agents that aren't so hot with a gun etc.

                          This notion that "better standards" in hiring somehow translates to firearms prowess is pretty elitist sounding to me. The only thing seperating most FBI agents and local cops is a degree in accounting or law (the FBI) vs. street smarts (the locals). Personally, I'll take my chances with the street smart guy in a gunfight over the guy who's trying to keep track of how much money the gunfight is costing.

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                          • #14
                            Amen Nightshift!

                            The FAA could set standards for qualifying and education (even offering classes to agency firearms instructors). Local agencies could offer a class taught to the FAA standards and then have the qualification course. Training records sent to the FAA would result in some kind of FAA issued endorsement card which in addition to your creds and shield get you on a plane armed. The FAA qualification course could be shot on the same day we shoot our department qualification course with records being sent to the FAA.

                            There, you have your nationally set standard for off duty cops carrying concealed on aircraft regardless of whether they are one of those genetically endowed feds.

                            [ 10-05-2001: Message edited by: valor55 ]

                            [ 10-05-2001: Message edited by: valor55 ]
                            I intend to go in harm's way. -John Paul Jones

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                            • #15
                              DANG NITESHIFT, YOU TELL EM, YOU GOT MY VOTE.
                              "REMEMBER, COPS ARE YOUR FRIENDS !!"

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