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Has the quality of today's 9mm bullets makes the .40 cal obsolete?

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  • Has the quality of today's 9mm bullets makes the .40 cal obsolete?

    .

    The quality of bullets has gotten better and better. When it comes to law enforcement or hunting I think the two most important things are bullet placement followed by bullet quality.


    Today's high quality bullets mean that you can do things with smaller calibers then you once would have done.



    My department currently allows 9mm, .40 cal and .45, however they are planning on switching to the SW MP's in the next few years and they will only allow the 9mm and .45 since they say with today's quality bullets the 9mm and .40 call are too similar in performance and that the chance of someone putting a 9mm in a .40 cal is to great (although this has rarely been a problem before).




    So, do you think that the quality of today's state of the art 9mm bullets make the .40 cal obsolete?




    For Law Enforcement if the 9mm and .40 cal are very close in performance you can carry quite a few more 9mm rounds then .40 cal rounds.

    .

  • #2
    9 has always met my needs. I have seen plenty of dudes dropped with weak 9mm ball ammo. Where you shoot is worth more than what you shoot with.

    I get this argument all the time from 45 guys. I always offer to let them shoot themselves in the leg with my sig to see if it's a weak round, but no one takes me up on it.

    M-11
    “All men dream...... But not equally..
    Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds wake in the day to find it is vanity;
    but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men,
    for they act their dreams with open eyes to make it possible.....”

    TE Lawrence

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    • #3
      No.

      Let me be quite clear. Absolutely not.Never saw a .40 bounce off a windshield. Did see a 9 do that.
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      • #4
        your department is going to have 2 different size rounds??? 9 and 45? Ive seen 9mm end up in 45 mags before on the range hard to believe but its happened. Why the two different sizes??

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        • #5
          Originally posted by HEDP View Post
          .

          So, do you think that the quality of today's state of the art 9mm bullets make the .40 cal obsolete?




          For Law Enforcement if the 9mm and .40 cal are very close in performance you can carry quite a few more 9mm rounds then .40 cal rounds.

          .
          When the 9mm bullets get better the .40's and .45's usualy improve. there is not allot of difference in mag cap. between 9 and .40 but more between 9 and .45

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          • #6
            Confused. If bullet technology gets better for the 9mm, wouldn't get better for the .40 cal also, thus keeping the gap the same?

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            • #7
              So the 9mm round improves, but the .40 cal stays the same? I'm not a big firearm or ammunition guru, but I would suspect that all ammo gets improved at some point. Down in my neck of the woods most agencies I'm aware of carry the .40 cal around and I don't see anyone going back to a 9mm.
              I'm 10-8 like a shark in a sea of crime..

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              • #8
                With the same high quality ammunition-Federal HST, Speer Gold Dot, etc., there isn't a rat's ***** worth of difference in terminal effect between any of the duty calibers....9mm/.40S&W/.357SIG/.45ACP/etc. There isn't an experienced trauma surgeon who can look at the wound and tell you which caliber was used before he digs out the projectile.

                .40S&W/.357SIG do seem to have a slight edge when it comes to barrier penetration over 9mm. They also, being high pressure rounds, wear out guns much quicker than 9mm, have increased flash/blast/recoil, have slightly lower capacity, and are more expensive. There is no such thing as a free lunch.

                Here is a good treatise on the subject:

                http://www.imakenews.com/valhalla/e_...43S,bmJTrhFr,w

                If you really want to get into terminal ballistics, from a recognized expert in the field, go here and read until your eyes bleed:

                http://m4carbine.net/forumdisplay.php?f=91

                Always keep in mind: All pistol rounds are pitiful fight stoppers. We carry them because they are convenient, not because they are the hammer of Thor. If you know you're going to a gunfight, and can't not go, take a rifle or shotgun.
                Last edited by Sotex; 10-28-2011, 02:56 AM.
                "It is better to avoid than to fight, better to deter than to kill. But.....it is better to kill than to die, or watch an innocent slaughtered, because you didn't have the wherewithal to defend them." - M. A.

                "We should bear in mind that, in general, it is the object of our newspapers rather to create a sensation-to make a point-than to further the cause of truth."-Edgar Allan Poe(1809-1849)

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Sotex View Post
                  With the same high quality ammunition-Federal HST, Speer Gold Dot, etc., there isn't a rat's ***** worth of difference in terminal effect between any of the duty calibers....9mm/.40S&W/.357SIG/.45ACP/etc. There isn't an experienced trauma surgeon who can look at the wound and tell you which caliber was used before he digs out the projectile. .40S&W/.357SIG do seem to have a slight edge when it comes to barrier penetration over 9mm. They also, being high pressure rounds, wear out guns much quicker than 9mm, have increased flash/blast/recoil, have slightly lower capacity, and are more expensive. There is no such thing as a free lunch. Here is a good treatise on the subject: http://www.imakenews.com/valhalla/e_...43S,bmJTrhFr,w If you really want to get into terminal ballistics, from a recognized expert in the field, go here and read until your eyes bleed: http://m4carbine.net/forumdisplay.php?f=91
                  Dunno exactly what you mean by "wears out guns faster", but for whatever reason, 200,000+ rounds through my Gen 3 Glock 23 and the gun is still going. I see practical applications for all current LE caliber rounds.
                  Getting shot hurts. Don't under estimate the power of live ammo. A .22LR can kill you. My personal thoughts is to avoid being shot by any caliber.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by HI629 View Post
                    Dunno exactly what you mean by "wears out guns faster", but for whatever reason, 200,000+ rounds through my Gen 3 Glock 23 and the gun is still going. I see practical applications for all current LE caliber rounds.
                    I mean that, given the same round count and maintenance schedule, something on your 23 will break before on a 19. Simply the physics of the forces involved. Although not quite the exact subject, some illustrations can be found in the article below:

                    http://fmgpublications.ipaperus.com/...CND11/?page=42
                    "It is better to avoid than to fight, better to deter than to kill. But.....it is better to kill than to die, or watch an innocent slaughtered, because you didn't have the wherewithal to defend them." - M. A.

                    "We should bear in mind that, in general, it is the object of our newspapers rather to create a sensation-to make a point-than to further the cause of truth."-Edgar Allan Poe(1809-1849)

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by HI629 View Post
                      Dunno exactly what you mean by "wears out guns faster", but for whatever reason, 200,000+ rounds through my Gen 3 Glock 23 and the gun is still going. I see practical applications for all current LE caliber rounds.
                      My G3 Glock 22 had the trigger reset spring snap after about 2-3k rounds. I was still in the academy at the time.

                      That being said, I'm shooting a 9mm now, and when I shoot steel with other agencies who have .40, I often can't make the steel fall when they can.

                      ...no, it's not a matter of aiming better either! I'm hitting the steel,it's just not moving!

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                      • #12
                        I can believe that placement makes the most difference. But that doesn't mean that there is no difference.
                        Same shot with a more potent round will do more damage, unless physics has changed.

                        Dang, that 10mm looks ugly...

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by HEDP View Post
                          .and that the chance of someone putting a 9mm in a .40 cal is to great (although this has rarely been a problem before).
                          What kind of morons who carry a gun for a living do you work with?

                          If you're carrying a 9mm and feel comfortable with it then great. But one should never downgrade something that could one day save your life should the SHTF.

                          My $.02

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by JasperST View Post
                            I can believe that placement makes the most difference. But that doesn't mean that there is no difference.
                            Same shot with a more potent round will do more damage, unless physics has changed.

                            Dang, that 10mm looks ugly...

                            So uhhhhh what department uses that 10MM and how do I apply?

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by JasperST View Post
                              I can believe that placement makes the most difference. But that doesn't mean that there is no difference.
                              Same shot with a more potent round will do more damage, unless physics has changed.

                              Dang, that 10mm looks ugly...

                              That picture is a joke. The 10mm is photoshopped. That's a picture of a mushroom cloud turned sideways.
                              "If the police have to come get you, they're bringing an @$$ kicking with them!"
                              -Chris Rock

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