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  • The sovereign movement

    My name is JJ MacNab and I'm working on a book on the sovereign movement. If you don't mind, I have a few questions for you guys.

    1) Based on the recent press coverage of sovereign-related violent acts against law enforcement, are you treating sovereign-related encounters any differently than you would have a year or two ago?

    2) Not all sovereign violence is spontaneous, and there's an awful lot of chatter online about alternative "common law" courts to put law enforcement on trial for treason, and going after family members of an officer who ****ed them off. How, if at all, are you dealing with this potential violence?

    3) Even when they're not violent, many sovereigns engage in "paper terrorism" against law enforcement, filing liens and frivolous lawsuits against officers and their families. Are you taking any steps to protect yourself?

    Many thanks,

    JJ MacNab
    Washington, DC

    PS: By way of background, I wrote a lengthy article on this subject geared toward law enforcement for the Southern Poverty Law Center magazine: http://deathandtaxes.com/splc_kane.pdf
    I am also the person who appeared in the recent 60 Minutes episode, explaining the various sovereign myths.

    If this post in inappropriate on this forum, let me know and I'll delete asap.

  • #2
    Last edited by Taylor13; 06-06-2011, 06:12 PM.

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    • #3
      Originally posted by Taylor13 View Post
      Well, not quite the response I was hoping for. Anyone else?

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      • #4
        There are few threads about them, go read them. These men and women don't do your reports for you, you can go interview your local police if you want but don't think DCPD has experience with them. But I don't think you will get much help here. You will not get any support or compassion for the sovereign people. I will try to find the thread I know of.
        It's not that liberals are ignorant. It's just that they know so much that isn't so. Ronald Reagan


        TSA, I would rather be felt up than blown up.

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        • #5
          JJ,

          It's generally the practice that none of the officers here like to give advice or information for papers, books, or movies. If they did, we'd have about 200 threads popping up every day asking for advice for term papers. I'd suggest setting up an interview with a local LEO or, if possible, a federal agent.

          2nd, this is beating a dead horse. There are at least 10 threads that I can think of about sovereign citizens here. I'd do a quick search.
          "If the police have to come get you, they're bringing an @$$ kicking with them!"
          -Chris Rock

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          • #6
            I don't think anyone will or should talk about how they're dealing with Soviet Citizens these days. There's a lot of operational security around it so that they can't defeat what they're saying. Especially if you want to put it into a book or somewhere online. You just pointed out how dangerous these people are which is the reason you'll get no serious replies.

            After several cops have been killed by this fringe group for the simple fact they pulled them over for a simple traffic violation you wont get any sympathy from us. If it was up to me I'd put them in a special camp so they can practice up on their constitutional laws.

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            • #7
              To clarify,

              1) I'm not looking for operational details. Two of the questions, for example, were phrased to elicit a yes or no answer.

              2) I've worked with a quite a few federal, state, and local law enforcement agencies over the last ten years on the subject of sovereign citizens and tax protesters, but am hoping to interact with a larger group. I've also worked on federal legislation to protect federal judges and federal employees from retaliatory liens and cyber stalking, and am considering doing the same at the state level, starting with high-risk areas such as Florida, Georgia, and Texas.

              3) If you glance at the article link I posted, you'll know that I am not pro-sovereign, have no sympathy for their cause, expect no compassion for their movement, and wrote the article as an educational tool for law enforcement. I structured the article based on a lengthy interview with the father of the deceased officer in the Arkansas shootings, the police chief.
              Last edited by jjmacnab; 06-06-2011, 07:16 PM. Reason: Corrected typo

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Justsaying View Post
                you can go interview your local police if you want but don't think DCPD has experience with them.
                A couple of years ago, I attended the federal criminal trial of a DC homicide detective who, along with four other homicide detectives, tried using sovereign arguments to avoid paying any income taxes. Police officers fall for sovereign schemes just as often as non-police officers.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by jjmacnab View Post
                  To clarify,

                  1) I'm not looking for operational details. Two of the questions, for example, were phrased to elicit a yes or no answer.

                  2) I've worked with a quite a few federal, state, and local law enforcement agencies over the last ten years on the subject of sovereign citizens and tax protesters, but am hoping to interact with a larger group. I've also worked on federal legislation to protect federal judges and federal employees from retaliatory liens and cyber stalking, and am considering doing the same at the state level, started with high-risk areas such as Florida, Georgia, and Texas.

                  3) If you glance at the article link I posted, you'll know that I am not pro-sovereign, have no sympathy for their cause, expect no compassion for their movement, and wrote the article as an educational tool for law enforcement. I structured the article based on a lengthy interview with the father of the deceased officer in the Arkansas shootings, the police chief.

                  To clarify our point.

                  We, as a group, normally do not assist authors. You are free to search the forum & when you do you will find several threads about the Sovereign Movement. While you are searching you will also find many request from authors on various subject. The answer is always the same

                  We don't assist authors.

                  As I read your point #2 above you already have contacts in the Law Enforcement world. I highly suggest you use those contacts for your research.

                  Second clarification for you................you won't find much help on this forum. Individual members are always free to give you a hand if they wish, but trust me the VAST majority of the forum members will not.



                  Originally posted by jjmacnab View Post
                  Police officers fall for sovereign schemes just as often as non-police officers.
                  Probably not a true statement. You have given ONE example.............any more?
                  Since some people need to be told by notes in crayon .......Don't PM me with without prior permission. If you can't discuss the situation in the open forum ----it must not be that important

                  My new word for the day is FOCUS, when someone irritates you tell them to FOCUS

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Taylor13 View Post
                    I don't think anyone will or should talk about how they're dealing with Soviet Citizens these days.
                    Freudian slip? haha

                    OP, I doubt you will get much help here. The officers on here have never been too energetic to help out with homework or books (for good reason). Plus, I wouldn't think contributing to books on sovereign citizens would be very high up on their to-do lists.

                    Like others have said, try searching for the several existing threads.
                    "You don't got to be Stonewall Jackson to know you don't want to fight in a basement." Lt. Aldo Raine

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Iowa #1603 View Post
                      You have given ONE example.............any more?
                      Sure. Off the top of my head:

                      FBI Special Agent Jan Lindsey
                      Florida homicide detective Tom Laughlin
                      South Carolina State Trooper Mark Bolick
                      Retired Texas police officer Eddie Kahn

                      One of the founders of the Montana Freemen - one of the earlier sovereign groups - was a former Canadian police officer named Dale Jacobi.
                      Last edited by jjmacnab; 06-06-2011, 07:40 PM.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by jjmacnab View Post
                        Sure. Off the top of my head:

                        FBI Special Agent Jan Lindsey
                        Florida homicide detective Tom Laughlin
                        South Carolina State Trooper Mark Bolick
                        Retired Texas police officer Eddie Kahn
                        5 out of about 500,000 officers.................thats a big percentage
                        Since some people need to be told by notes in crayon .......Don't PM me with without prior permission. If you can't discuss the situation in the open forum ----it must not be that important

                        My new word for the day is FOCUS, when someone irritates you tell them to FOCUS

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          pisrod.......
                          It could be that the purpose of your life is only to serve as a warning to others.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by jjmacnab View Post
                            To clarify,

                            1) I'm not looking for operational details. Two of the questions, for example, were phrased to elicit a yes or no answer.

                            2) I've worked with a quite a few federal, state, and local law enforcement agencies over the last ten years on the subject of sovereign citizens and tax protesters, but am hoping to interact with a larger group. I've also worked on federal legislation to protect federal judges and federal employees from retaliatory liens and cyber stalking, and am considering doing the same at the state level, starting with high-risk areas such as Florida, Georgia, and Texas.

                            3) If you glance at the article link I posted, you'll know that I am not pro-sovereign, have no sympathy for their cause, expect no compassion for their movement, and wrote the article as an educational tool for law enforcement. I structured the article based on a lengthy interview with the father of the deceased officer in the Arkansas shootings, the police chief.
                            Well I'm glad you are somewhat on the good side of this but there's only so much that will be divulged on the forum. I don't think that you'll find many cops to be help when it comes to this, even if your intentions are good, which I applaud you for but don't think you'll get the info you want or need.

                            You might find it helpful to contact the FBI or DHS on this subject.

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                            • #15
                              Somewhat on the good side?

                              Thanks Taylor. Unfortunately, the FBI and DHS don't have the same front line experience that I'm looking for, and the FBI is, to put it nicely, bad at sharing data.

                              Anyhoo, I've outstayed my welcome, so I apologize for trying to gather info here. Thanks anyway. If anyone is still interested in chatting in a more confidential setting, please drop me a private message.

                              J

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