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  • #91
    Originally posted by Unistat View Post
    This reminds me of what my wife says about schizophrenics. When they have their break, their delusions follow some aspect important to their lives. For instance, the religious folks will think they're angels, the political minded might think the Fed is spying on them, etc.
    It's actually really interesting to attend the criminal trials, because you usually get to hear what caused the common sense switch to go off. Often times, it's an understandable break.

    Imagine, for example, if your wife was diagnosed with cancer and you had to choose between her treatments and paying your income taxes. Obviously, you save your wife, and when the IRS comes after you hard, your attitude towards taxes and tax collection is understandably warped. From there, hopping on the sovereign train is an easy jump. A rational person would call an attorney or arrange a payment plan with the IRS, but people aren't always rational when it comes to handling emotional crises.

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    • #92
      Originally posted by Unistat View Post
      Yeah but if it quacks like a duck...

      It isn't invoking Godwin's Law if the group in question really are racial supremicists.
      I doubt I've ever called a sovereign a Nazi, although there are some notable Holocaust deniers in the movement.

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      • #93
        Originally posted by ImperialCop
        If anarchists are left wing then aren’t sovereign citizens, too?
        One of the things that separates them is their end vision of society. Anarchists tend to advocate a socialist communal society where everyone works for the greater good, basically removing the middleman ("temporary" dictatorship) from Marx's vision and going directly from revolution to utopia. Sovereigns advocate an ultra libertarian society of "Everyone mind your own business." No government, and everyone working for their own good which, in their mind, is ultimately good for society.
        "If the police have to come get you, they're bringing an @$$ kicking with them!"
        -Chris Rock

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        • #94
          'Sovereign' citizen charged with filing false documents
          By Jenny Arnold
          Published: Saturday, June 11, 2011 at 3:15 a.m.
          A woman claiming to be part of the sovereign citizen movement has been charged with filing fraudulent documents against local law enforcement and court officials at the Spartanburg Clerk of Court office.
          Melody Denise Rose, 41, of 290 Tibbs Drive, has been charged by the Spartanburg County Sheriff’s Office with two counts of impersonating an official by filing false documents, Master Deputy Tony Ivey said.
          Rose identifies herself as a sovereign citizen, Ivey said. On May 5 and June 2, she filed liens against the finances and property of two magistrate judges, the sheriff’s office and court officials.
          The documents were identified as affidavits, and all pages, front and back, were marked with a 3-cent stamp with her name signed over it in gold ink, an incident report said.
          Sovereign citizens are anti-government extremists who believe that even though they physically reside in the United States, they are separate or “sovereign” from the United States, according to the FBI.
          As a result, they believe they don’t have to answer to any government authority, including courts, taxing entities, motor vehicle departments or law enforcement.
          Many sovereign citizens don’t pay their taxes. They hold illegal courts that issue warrants for judges and police officers, and clog up the court system with frivolous lawsuits and liens against public officials to harass them. They also might use fake money orders, personal checks and other documents at government agencies, banks and businesses, according to the FBI.
          “It’s paper terrorism, if you will,” Ivey said. “It has gained momentum in the past couple of years.”
          Ivey said Rose did not identify herself as part of any organized group.
          He said that local law enforcement have received regular updates about the sovereign citizen movement from the FBI, and this is the first arrest the sheriff’s office has made involving the movement.
          Rose was arrested Thursday and released from the Spartanburg County Detention Center later that day on a $6,000 bond.

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          • #95
            Originally posted by jjmacnab View Post
            I think it's why so many posters here took offense that I published my article in the SPLC magazine. They have some sympathy for sovereign politics and ideals, they just don't stomach the absurd and violent sovereign methodology.

            Not me. I can't really say I know enough about the ins and outs of the sovereign movement's politics and ideals to have much of a honest opinion on them...sympathetic or not.


            Concerning the SPLC, I've seen their spokespeople numerous times on TV and I've read multiple copies of their "Intelligence Report". It's pretty clear to me from watching and reading what they produce that they're largely left-wing propagandists.

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            • #96
              Originally posted by jjmacnab View Post
              A rational person would call an attorney or arrange a payment plan with the IRS, but people aren't always rational when it comes to handling emotional crises.
              This is exactly what makes it like every other cult. It takes people when they are at their most vulnerable moments.

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              • #97
                Originally posted by Taylor13 View Post
                You are either channeling James Cagney or Raymond Chandler. Either way, pretty cool thing to see from a teenager.

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                • #98
                  Yeah I get that a lot. =)

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                  • #99
                    Manhunt for militia member who fired shots at officers
                    Alaska Dispatch | Jun 13, 2011

                    A manhunt was under way Monday in a remote area near the Idaho-Montana border for an antigovernment militia leader who allegedly fired shots at pursuing deputies a day earlier. David Burgert, who was recently released from federal prison for involvement in a plot to assassinate police and elected officials, was being hunted by sheriff's deputies from two western Montana counties. "This a very dangerous person," said Missoula County Undersheriff Mike Dominick to the Billings Gazette. "I believe he wouldn't hesitate to shoot at anyone or kidnap somebody to get their rigs." Burgert is known to be involved with Francis Schaeffer Cox, the founder of the Alaska Peacemaker's Militia.

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                    • Hey JJ, any info on what's going on with the Hutaree? The last I heard is that they were arrested, but nothing about a trial or verdict. I think there was a minor involved too. Just curious as they are from my neck of the woods.
                      There are basically two kinds of people in this world. Those that believe in the moon landing and those that don't.
                      http://unistat76.blogspot.com/

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                      • Originally posted by Unistat View Post
                        Hey JJ, any info on what's going on with the Hutaree? The last I heard is that they were arrested, but nothing about a trial or verdict. I think there was a minor involved too. Just curious as they are from my neck of the woods.
                        There are nine defendants, and the youngest, "Jr" was 19 at the time of the original arrests.

                        The case is plugging away in federal court. In February, 2011, the DOJ filed a second superceding indictment, the jury trial is currently for 9/13/2011, and the US has asked for a competency hearing for one of the defendants (Jacob Ward.)

                        Here's a copy of the current indictment, if you're interested.

                        http://redcrayons.net/hutaree293.pdf

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by jjmacnab View Post
                          There are nine defendants, and the youngest, "Jr" was 19 at the time of the original arrests.

                          The case is plugging away in federal court. In February, 2011, the DOJ filed a second superceding indictment, the jury trial is currently for 9/13/2011, and the US has asked for a competency hearing for one of the defendants (Jacob Ward.)

                          Here's a copy of the current indictment, if you're interested.

                          http://redcrayons.net/hutaree293.pdf
                          I was wondering about them myself, thanks for the update.
                          "People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." - Orwell

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by jjmacnab View Post
                            There are nine defendants, and the youngest, "Jr" was 19 at the time of the original arrests.

                            The case is plugging away in federal court. In February, 2011, the DOJ filed a second superceding indictment, the jury trial is currently for 9/13/2011, and the US has asked for a competency hearing for one of the defendants (Jacob Ward.)

                            Here's a copy of the current indictment, if you're interested.

                            http://redcrayons.net/hutaree293.pdf
                            Thanks.
                            There are basically two kinds of people in this world. Those that believe in the moon landing and those that don't.
                            http://unistat76.blogspot.com/

                            Comment


                            • Montana forest camp is focus of militia leader manhunt
                              Alaska Dispatch | Jun 15, 2011

                              Montana sheriff's deputies have focused their search for militia members on a remote forest camp, the Associated Press reports. Missoula County Undersheriff Mike Dominick told The AP that a tip led deputies to the camp in the forested mountains west of Lolo in northwestern Montana. Officers had the camp under surveillance but didn't know if the person spotted there is fugitive David Burgert. Burgert, who faces attempted homicide after allegedly firing shots at deputies over the weekend, is known to be involved with the founder of the Alaska Peacemaker's Militia, Francis Schaeffer Cox.

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                              • This thread started out to be one that some did not want to respond too. Now it is 5 pages long. Very interesting reading.

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