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Philadelphia PD won't Look the Other Way on Open-Carry Gun Owners

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  • #16
    you are kidding right?? i really hope so!!! well let me know how it goes when you are on the streets as a cop ( i see you just passed your test 5/18/11 - congrates ) and let see if you have a different feeling about it when you deal with a looser who purposely tries to mess with you and then try to jam you up with your department.. maybe someday you will come back to this forum and say sorry to all the men and woman on the job!

    Comment


    • #17
      This is very humorous.
      Iowa has been an “open carry” state for very many years……………as long as you have a permit. In January, we became a “shall issue” permit state rather than the former “may issue” status. The news (and even some LEO’s opinions) was filled with predictions of gloom and doom because people would be running around open carrying.

      Many local governments (city and county) enacted ordinances prohibiting carrying of weapons in government buildings/grounds. They cited the “disruption” that would occur if people were seen carrying weapons……since the new law would give out a lot more permits than what we were used to.
      After quite a bit of discourse many of those governments relented and are allowing weapons to be carried……….but some are only prohibiting “open carrying”

      The funny thing is-----------no one, and I mean no one open carries in Iowa. It has been in the statute for many years and it is a non issue, because I guess most of us realize the tactical disadvantage of that means of conveyance.

      The uproar over the change in legislation has educated many people on what the law states………….and we continue to carry our weapons concealed.
      Since some people need to be told by notes in crayon .......Don't PM me with without prior permission. If you can't discuss the situation in the open forum ----it must not be that important

      My new word for the day is FOCUS, when someone irritates you tell them to FOCUS

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by ChristianCapone View Post
        This man was held at gunpoint and arrested for doing nothing wrong, and you don't see a problem with that?
        His sole intent was to manufacture a confrontation with the Police. Any possibility of making a claim to the contrary went out the window when it was learned that he went to an auto-parts store, specifically not wearing a jacket which would have concealed the firearm, IN THE MIDDLE OF WINTER.

        Unfortunately, he got exactly what he was looking for. As for the escalation of the incident, HE HIMSELF caused that by REFUSING to follow the Officer's instructions.

        When and if you hit the street, your eyes are going to be rudely opened the first time you deal with a person armed with a firearm who REFUSES TO COMPLY. I don't immediately fly off the handle just seeing what appears to be a decent citizen with a firearm, but I will insure that the possession is legal, and if the person refuses to comply you can be sure that I will act accordingly as said person has just indicated through non-compliance that he is NOT a decent citizen and is an armed threat.

        You see, a DECENT citizen would comply even if he KNEW the Officer was in the wrong. It is ILLEGAL (at least in NY and PA) to resist or obstruct even when you are completely innocent. Court is where these issues get sorted out - NOT ON THE SIDE OF THE ROAD WITH A GUN.

        Have a nice day, and by all means explain your experienced viewpoint to your FTO.

        -V
        Last edited by vincelli; 05-22-2011, 01:11 PM.

        Comment


        • #19
          right on vincelli! 1000 agree.. just like i said in my comments! but i did like " explain to your FTO.." that was funny!

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by deputymel View Post
            you are kidding right?? I really hope so!!! Well let me know how it goes when you are on the streets as a cop ( i see you just passed your test 5/18/11 - congrates ) and let see if you have a different feeling about it when you deal with a looser carrying a gun who purposely tries to mess with you and then try to jam you up with your department.. Maybe someday you will come back to this forum and say sorry to all the men and woman on the job!

            i put in the caveat
            "I don't go on "I'maworthlesscumdumpster.com" and post negative **** about cum dumpsters."
            The Tick

            "Are you referring to the secret headquarters of a fictional crime fighter or penal complex slang for a-$$hole, anus or rectum?"
            sanitizer

            "and we all know you are a poser and a p*ssy.... "
            Bearcat357 to Dinner Portion/buck8/long relief

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by phillydog07 View Post
              If the stop is brief and the person is free to go once the officers ascertain that the person is legitimately open carrying (absent any other legal reason to detain the individual), I see no problem with this. I'm all for people exercising their right to possess a firearm, but we also need to balance that with allowing police to be as safe as possible while performing their duties.
              Not on this issue per se, I am a gun owner but don't open carry, don't care for the attitudes of many open carry people and don't have a desire to open carry, but I take issue with requiring proof license for a legal activity with no reasonable suspicion. Let's take your words and apply them to other activities, and the police stopping a person absent any other legal reason to detain the individual:

              If the stop is brief and the person is free to go once the officers ascertain that the person is legitimately driving with a driver's license (absent any other legal reason to detain the individual), I see no problem with this.

              If the stop is brief and the person is free to go once the officers ascertain that the Hispanic person buying a soda at the local Quickmart is legally here in the USA (absent any other legal reason to detain the individual), I see no problem with this.

              If the stop is brief and the person is free to go once the officers ascertain that the person in the Century 21 coat walking a family around the outside of a home is a legitimately licensed real estate agent (absent any other legal reason to detain the individual), I see no problem with this.

              If the stop is brief and the person is free to go once the officers ascertain that the person is driving a plumbing company truck is legitimately a licensed plumber (absent any other legal reason to detain the individual), I see no problem with this.

              If the stop is brief and the person is free to go once the officers ascertain that the person pushing a mower on the front lawn of a house is the owner or has permission by the owner to be on the property (absent any other legal reason to detain the individual), I see no problem with this.

              Its slippery 4th Amendment slope you're advocating. In my state the police can't require ID if there is no reasonable suspicion that a crime has been or is about to be committed.
              Last edited by eyesopen; 05-22-2011, 06:14 PM.
              The natural progress of things is for liberty to yield, and government to gain ground." - Thomas Jefferson

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by ChristianCapone View Post
                This man was held at gunpoint and arrested for doing nothing wrong, and you don't see a problem with that?
                Nope, he was DETAINED for an investigation. Thanks for playing, but you need some learnin before you start spouting.

                Secondly, I am very pro gun rights and believe any properly trained and mentally stable individual should be allowed to carry CONCEALED. Open carry is not the desired method for me for tactical reasons. I actually hate to open carry while in our training uniform (5.11's and embroidered polo.) Too many people get very uneasy and aren't used to seeing individuals not in a traditional uniform with an exposed firearm.
                Being a good street cop is like coming to work in a wet suit and peeing in your pants. It's a nice warm feeling, but you're the only one who knows anything has happened.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Two comments:

                  1 - Even if he had followed the officers instructions, he still would have been detained for ~40 minutes, ended up in cuffs, etc. because the officer wasn't up to date on OC laws in Philly. The best outcome he could have had would've been going through that detention, and following up later with IAB and/or a civil action. That's IF he had complied.

                  2 - He was stupid for not following the cops' instructions. So why didn't they charge him with resisting right then and there? If there's no retaliatory motive, why did the DA wait until after his audio was posted on Youtube to charge him?
                  John Q. Citizen

                  They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Why would anyone ever want to open carry? All it does is invite criminals to target you first and the police will always be answering calls because of you. I see no point in showing off that I have a weapon.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Valid point, which makes me wonder...

                      How often do you hear of someone getting attacked by criminals specifically because they were carrying open? Are there any stats on that?
                      John Q. Citizen

                      They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by JQC View Post
                        Valid point, which makes me wonder...

                        How often do you hear of someone getting attacked by criminals specifically because they were carrying open? Are there any stats on that?
                        One could ask the same about stats regarding an actual crime deterred or criminal stopped because of the weapon exposed.
                        I'm 10-8 like a shark in a sea of crime..

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by vincelli View Post
                          ...he went to an auto-parts store, specifically not wearing a jacket which would have concealed the firearm, IN THE MIDDLE OF WINTER.
                          I was wondering when I saw that part; in PA, is an OC permit and a CC permit one and the same, or is it two seperate permits? If not, perhaps me only has the former and, therefore, can't conceal the gun. *shrug*
                          (Not that I see any sense whatsoever in, if you're only getting one of two permits, choosing the OC one, of course.)
                          Lt. Col. Grace - "Lt. Murphey, why are you all dressed up to mack on the ladies?"
                          Me - "Sir, you just answered your own question."

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by JQC View Post
                            Two comments:

                            1 - Even if he had followed the officers instructions, he still would have been detained for ~40 minutes, ended up in cuffs, etc. because the officer wasn't up to date on OC laws in Philly. The best outcome he could have had would've been going through that detention, and following up later with IAB and/or a civil action. That's IF he had complied.

                            2 - He was stupid for not following the cops' instructions. So why didn't they charge him with resisting right then and there? If there's no retaliatory motive, why did the DA wait until after his audio was posted on Youtube to charge him?
                            Ummm...it's both of their fault that the stop lasted for 45 minutes - but mainly the moron WALKING AROUND LOOKING FOR A CONFRONTATION AND NOT COMPLYING WITH THE OFFICER...it does not take that long to verify that a person has a valid permit as long as you comply and follow the officers commands...probably 5-10 minutes tops...

                            And as far as "being cuffed and blah blah blah blah blah" that people are whining about:

                            may be asked to lay on the ground until officers feel safe while they check permits.
                            note the "may" part - which means that it is up to the officers discretion - as in if you do what the officer says, don't get confrontational like this idiot did (which NO ONE can deny that he did and was looking for a fight), keep your hands where the officer can see them, and you may keep your clothes clean and be on your way quickly...officers have families too that they want to get home to, and every officer's #1 priority is NOT to shoot someone or beat their a** or inconvenience or mess with someone for fun (believe it or not) - it is TO GO HOME ALIVE AND SAFE AT THE END OF THE SHIFT! Their right to live is a hell of a lot more important then your right to open carry - so they will do whatever it takes to make sure that they are safe...

                            Why are they charging him now that the video is posted?! Hmmm...probably to deter other idiots from wiring themselves with audio/video, strapping a gun on their hips, and walking around the city looking for confrontations with the police so they can be the next internet hit - not to mention that they now have video proof of his dumb act to show in court (I believe that is called a "SLAM DUNK!"). And just because YOU wouldn't do it, doesn't mean that there aren't other people who won't.

                            See how stepping back and using a little bit of common sense can answer your questions...
                            Last edited by Aerohead; 05-23-2011, 08:36 AM.
                            Originally posted by RSGSRT
                            We've reached a point where natural selection doesn't have a chance in hell of keeping up with the procreation of imbeciles.
                            Why is it acceptable for you to be an idiot, but not acceptable for me to point it out?

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Lt. Raymond Evers, a spokesman for the city police, told FoxNews.com ........ Evers, who has been an officer for nearly 20 years, said "very rarely do people open carry in Philadelphia." But he added he wasn't make excuses.

                              "We weren't as up on that crime code as we should have been," he said, adding that officers are being re-educated on open carry in response to the incident.

                              Dougherty is facing disciplinary action pending the outcome of an internal affairs investigation, Evers said.


                              Sounds like the brass didn't get the memo out very well about open carrying and as a result this officer wasn't aware that open carrying was permissible in Philly.

                              That's definitely not a consensual encounter when a cop initiates a conversation with a gun drawn, a reasonable person wouldn't feel free to walk away. The guy should have just followed the commands and he wouldn't have anything to be charged with.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by vincelli View Post
                                His sole intent was to manufacture a confrontation with the Police. Any possibility of making a claim to the contrary went out the window when it was learned that he went to an auto-parts store, specifically not wearing a jacket which would have concealed the firearm, IN THE MIDDLE OF WINTER.

                                Unfortunately, he got exactly what he was looking for. As for the escalation of the incident, HE HIMSELF caused that by REFUSING to follow the Officer's instructions.

                                When and if you hit the street, your eyes are going to be rudely opened the first time you deal with a person armed with a firearm who REFUSES TO COMPLY. I don't immediately fly off the handle just seeing what appears to be a decent citizen with a firearm, but I will insure that the possession is legal, and if the person refuses to comply you can be sure that I will act accordingly as said person has just indicated through non-compliance that he is NOT a decent citizen and is an armed threat.

                                You see, a DECENT citizen would comply even if he KNEW the Officer was in the wrong. It is ILLEGAL (at least in NY and PA) to resist or obstruct even when you are completely innocent. Court is where these issues get sorted out - NOT ON THE SIDE OF THE ROAD WITH A GUN.

                                Have a nice day, and by all means explain your experienced viewpoint to your FTO.

                                -V
                                +++++1

                                Comment

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