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  • Marine killed by police.

    More collateral damage in the drug war I guess. We should end this nonsense.
    ______________________________________

    http://reason.com/blog/2011/05/16/ma...two-tours-in-i
    ______________________________________

    Marine Survives Two Tours in Iraq, SWAT Kills Him
    Tim Cavanaugh | May 16, 2011

    "Please send me an ambulance and you can ask more questions later, please!"

    Guerena tells the dispatcher that her husband had returned home about 6:30 a.m. after work and was sleeping.

    Prompted by the dispatcher, Guerena says her husband was shot in the stomach and hands.

    The dispatcher asks Guerena to put her cheek next to her husband's nose and mouth to see if he's breathing, but she replies in Spanish that her husband is face- down.

    The operator tells Guerena to grab a cloth and apply pressure to his wounds, but the wife responds frantically: "I can't! I can't! There's a bunch of people outside of my house. I don't know what the heck is happening!"

    A dispatcher asks if the people outside are the SWAT members. "I think it's the SWAT, but they ... Oh my God!" Guerena says.

    A dispatcher asks that she open the door for the SWAT, but Guerena replies that the door was already opened by police.

    "Is anybody coming? Is anybody coming?" she asks.

    The operator tells Guerena help is on the way, but they're still trying to figure out what happened.

    "I don't know, that's it, whatever I told you, that's it," Guerena says.

    Just after the five-minute mark, Guerena's end of the line goes silent.

    The two dispatchers spend about four minutes talking to each other and calling out for Guerena while trying to figure out if the call is coming from the same residence where the warrant was served. At the end of the 10-minute 911 call, a dispatcher says she has confirmation that Guerena is outside with deputies on the scene.

    This is from Arizona Daily Star reporter Fernanda Echavarri's effort to piece together the death of Jose Guerena, 26, at the hands of a Pima County, Arizona SWAT team. Guerena, who joined the Marines in 2002 and served two tours in Iraq, was killed just after 9 a.m. May 5. Guerera had just gone to bed after working a 12-hour shift at a local mine when his home was invaded as part of a multi-house crackdown by sheriff's deputies.

    Like enemy of the state Osama bin Laden, Guerena died with his wife close by. Widow Vanessa Guerena, who hid with her four-year-old son when sheriff's deputies raided the home, fills in detail that has been slow to come from Pima County Sheriff Clarence W. Dupnik’s office:

    "When I came out the officers dragged me through the kitchen and took me outside, and that's when I saw him laying there gasping for air," Vanessa Guerena said. "I kept begging the officers to call an ambulance that maybe he could make it and that my baby was still inside."

    The little boy soon after walked out of the closet on his own. SWAT members took him outside to be with his mother.

    "I never imagined I would lose him like that, he was badly injured but I never thought he could be killed by police after he served his country," Vanessa Guerena said.

    The family's 5-year-old son was at school that morning and deputies say they thought Guerena's wife and his other child would also be gone when they entered the home.

    Guerena says there were no drugs in their house.

    Deputies said they seized a "large sum of money from another house" that morning. But they refused to say from which of the homes searched that morning they found narcotics, drug ledgers or drug paraphernalia. Court documents showing what was being sought and was found have not been made public. A computer check on Guerena revealed a couple of traffic tickets and no criminal history.

    Tucson KGUN’s Joel Waldman says the SWAT team prevented paramedics from going to work on Guerena for one hour and fourteen minutes.

    The sheriff’s department maintains that Guerena was holding an AR-15 when the paramilitary force fired 71 bullets in his home, but other key parts of the government story have collapsed. While PCSD initially claimed Guerena fired the weapon he was alleged to have been holding, the department now says it was a misfire by one of the deputies that caused this deadly group panic inside a home containing a woman and a toddler:

    A deputy's bullet struck the side of the doorway, causing chips of wood to fall on his shield. That prompted some members of the team to think the deputy had been shot, [PCSD spokesman Michael] O'Connor said.

  • #2
    Obviously journalistic sensationalism and there not enough information provided to make an informed opinion.

    Comment


    • #3
      We've heard only one side here. That of the media. They revel in this type of story. Believe them if you so choose. I'm waiting for the rest of the story. I personally do my best to not be influenced by the likes of David Gregory, Brian Williams, Andrea Mitchell, and the rest of the talking heads.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by 1082 View Post
        ...the department now says it was a misfire by one of the deputies that caused this deadly group panic...
        Not weighing in on the story since, as has been pointed out, we don't know it. Just saying that, anytime I hear about raids such as this, that's always my biggest fear. If I were the suspect, and I had a squad of officers all drawn down on me, even with my hands up and unarmed I'd be ****ting myself thinking, "Please, God...don't let one of them sneeze." 'Cause if that first shot is fired...
        Lt. Col. Grace - "Lt. Murphey, why are you all dressed up to mack on the ladies?"
        Me - "Sir, you just answered your own question."

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Murf425 View Post
          Not weighing in on the story since, as has been pointed out, we don't know it. Just saying that, anytime I hear about raids such as this, that's always my biggest fear. If I were the suspect, and I had a squad of officers all drawn down on me, even with my hands up and unarmed I'd be ****ting myself thinking, "Please, God...don't let one of them sneeze." 'Cause if that first shot is fired...
          Or it's the dead of night, you hear your door kicked down... you grab a gun to see what's going on and it's a SWAT team that mistakenly raided your house.

          Comment


          • #6
            "Like enemy of the state Osama bin Laden, Guerena died with his wife close by."

            That's a little much isn't it?




            World_So_Cold

            Comment


            • #7
              The drug war: The policing of non-violent, consensual crimes with very violent, volatile tactics.

              A map of botched drug raids in America: http://www.cato.org/raidmap/

              Comment


              • #8
                No, no, no....That's journalistic integrity at its finest.

                Comment


                • #9
                  http://azstarnet.com/news/local/crim...7da6e9e4b.html

                  excerpt:

                  A dispatcher asks that she open the door for the SWAT, but Guerena replies that the door was already opened by police.
                  "Is anybody coming? Is anybody coming?" she asks.
                  The operator tells Guerena help is on the way, but they're still trying to figure out what happened.
                  "I don't know, that's it, whatever I told you, that's it," Guerena says.
                  Just after the five-minute mark, Guerena's end of the line goes silent.
                  The two dispatchers spend about four minutes talking to each other and calling out for Guerena while trying to figure out if the call is coming from the same residence where the warrant was served. At the end of the 10-minute 911 call, a dispatcher says she has confirmation that Guerena is outside with deputies on the scene.
                  Other audio records Drexel Heights released to the Star Friday indicate the agency dispatched a medical unit at 9:43 a.m. but was told by the Sheriff's Department to hold off.
                  Dispatchers said there were several addresses where the SWAT team was going that morning and they were not sure if this house was one of them, the audio shows.
                  The Sheriff's Department dispatcher said she had not received any requests for medical help from deputies on scene. Drexel Heights fire dispatcher asked: "You don't want us going in, right?" The sheriff's operator then said: "I don't know what is going on. You guys go ahead and hold off until we know what it's going to be."
                  The Sheriff's Department operator said people at the scene wanted the medical help to stay back because they might be dealing with a "barricaded subject."
                  Molly Weasley makes Chuck Norris eat his vegetables.

                  sigpic

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Read two paragraphs and decided that article was an extremely biased editorial, not actual news. Find a real news story with facts and then I'll consider discussing the article.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Typical media hype. It's always the bad guy is innocent until proven guilty. However, law enforcement is always guilty and when proven innocent we're still hated for it.......

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by jannino View Post
                        Or it's the dead of night, you hear your door kicked down... you grab a gun to see what's going on and it's a SWAT team that mistakenly raided your house.
                        I don't remember any posts you may have made in that thread well enough to know if you're being serious or not...
                        Lt. Col. Grace - "Lt. Murphey, why are you all dressed up to mack on the ladies?"
                        Me - "Sir, you just answered your own question."

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by jannino View Post
                          Or it's the dead of night, you hear your door kicked down... you grab a gun to see what's going on and it's a SWAT team that mistakenly raided your house.
                          No one said anything about mistaken address. Unfortunately, having served and having a full time job, wife and kids doesn't necessarily mean someone can't be up to no good. Working narc in a military town I see it all the time. The article wants you to think they got the wrong house by painting a picture of a standup guy, but like I said thats not always true just given those facts.
                          Last edited by yellowreef; 05-19-2011, 01:09 PM.
                          "You don't want the truth because, deep down in places you don't talk about at parties, you want me on that wall, you need me on that wall... I have neither the time, nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very freedom that I provide, and then questions the manner in which I provide it."

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Geez O'Pete, We don't get that outrageous kind of liberal bias out of the newspapers even here in Detroit!

                            As to the the War on Drugs, it's only a victimless crime till you start counting bodies. I doubt the cartels would just give up their murderous business practices if we only made drugs legal.
                            There are basically two kinds of people in this world. Those that believe in the moon landing and those that don't.
                            http://unistat76.blogspot.com/

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Unistat View Post
                              ...As to the the War on Drugs, it's only a victimless crime till you start counting bodies. I doubt the cartels would just give up their murderous business practices if we only made drugs legal.
                              A few people still die in the alcohol trade, but not nearly as many as did during prohibition. *The effects of alcohol still kill PLENTY.

                              If the street value on their product drops 90% overnight, the primary target of the cartels would probably be the politicians who successfully proposed the legislation.

                              Comment

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