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Um...He Is Pointing A GUN At You...

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  • #16
    Man that video is a tearful one, I can understand the officer and what he was doing. You can see the people in the back ground. How ever if they are that dumb to stand and watch then let nature sort it out. He should have dropped that fool when he made the turn around the driver side of that car. IMO Prayers go out to the officer and his family!
    Empty your mind, be formless, shapeless - like water.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by IndianaGuy
      So my question is lets say that a civilian in the bakery was carrying and decided to shoot and kill the armed assailant? Would that person be in legal jeopardy?

      IndianaGuy
      I don't know of a Prosecuting Attorney around here that would try to file charges on that person for protecting a police officer's life in this type of situation.
      Why are there so many babies on O.com? Creole, you and your buddy JPSO Recruit help me out on this one....

      * "Preach always, if necessary, use words!" St Francis of Assisi

      * Luke Chapter 6, Verses 27-36

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      • #18
        Saw the interview on the news last night. The officer was very concerned about the people in the bakery and that he had no clear backstop. He stated that he was not going to Monday Morning Quarterback the situation but he was in very good spirits. He did lose his left eye due to the gunshot and he appeared to have some injurys on his forehead from the shotgun pellets. He is out of the hospital and is going to get a prosthetic eye in the next month and then back to work soon after that.
        "You can't handcuff me, I'm a college graduate!"
        (Smurfette)

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        • #19
          I am going home to my family every night and I am going to do whatever I have to do to go home in the same condition I left the house. Every LEO in the US should feel the same way.

          Trying to talk to someone with a long arm aimed in on you is just plain stupid, especially at that range.

          Glad the officer survived, but he lost his eye because he failed to act.

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          • #20
            Originally posted by madchiken View Post
            I am going home to my family every night and I am going to do whatever I have to do to go home in the same condition I left the house. Every LEO in the US should feel the same way.

            Trying to talk to someone with a long arm aimed in on you is just plain stupid, especially at that range.

            Glad the officer survived, but he lost his eye because he failed to act.
            I don't necessarily agree. It seems that he acted in accordance with his personal values and I respect that. There are people who would prefer death over placing an innocent bystander at risk. I also respect your position, but I don't agree that "Every LEO in the US should feel the same way." Every person should look inside him/herself, know his/her values, and act accordingly.
            "Son, you are a walkin' violation of the laws of nature...But we don't enforce them laws."

            I am just a country boy tryin' to make some sense
            But I'd like to ask the Congress, I'd like to ask the President
            "Can ya tell me where all the money went?"
            We might not be broke but we're badly bent!


            The Tractors -- "Badly Bent" from the album Owner's Manual

            "Common sense. So rare, it should be a super power." Exodus 259

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            • #21
              That whole video screamed suicide by cop IMO.
              This show is awesome, wrapped in supercool and smothered in bitchin. The only way it could be cooler is if he was riding a unicorn or something.

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              • #22
                Damned brave cop. Damned CS to second the poor guy when all he did was hesitate due to the risk of hitting the people behind the perp.

                I've said it a million times here and in other discussions. I wasn't there. There didn't appear to be a clean backdrop. I will not judge, except maybe to judge those who judge him. Shame on you. Have you forgotten your training for God's sake.? Liability much? Good grief. He couldn't win there - nor here, apparently.

                A prayer goes out to this gallant man.
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                • #23
                  Originally posted by -Erik- View Post
                  That whole video screamed suicide by cop IMO.
                  That's exactly what I thought.

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                  • #24
                    absolutely unreal.
                    The views, comments, and opinions posted above represent soley the views, comments, and opinions of myself alone, and to my knowledge do not represent the views, comments, and opinions of anyone else or my employer.

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by HeadDoc View Post
                      I don't necessarily agree. It seems that he acted in accordance with his personal values and I respect that. There are people who would prefer death over placing an innocent bystander at risk. I also respect your position, but I don't agree that "Every LEO in the US should feel the same way." Every person should look inside him/herself, know his/her values, and act accordingly.
                      Originally posted by 1042 Trooper View Post
                      Damned brave cop. Damned CS to second the poor guy when all he did was hesitate due to the risk of hitting the people behind the perp.

                      I've said it a million times here and in other discussions. I wasn't there. There didn't appear to be a clean backdrop. I will not judge, except maybe to judge those who judge him. Shame on you. Have you forgotten your training for God's sake.? Liability much? Good grief. He couldn't win there - nor here, apparently.

                      A prayer goes out to this gallant man.
                      My point exactly


                      He was there, his call.

                      It sounds like he is at peace with his decision.
                      Since some people need to be told by notes in crayon .......Don't PM me with without prior permission. If you can't discuss the situation in the open forum ----it must not be that important

                      My new word for the day is FOCUS, when someone irritates you tell them to FOCUS

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                      • #26
                        From the other thread:

                        Originally posted by SRT936 View Post
                        If I ever screw up big, I would pray that others could (and would) learn from my mistakes. We owe it to our fallen to learn the lessons they gave everything to teach us. When we discuss these incidents, its not to "Monday Morning Quarterback" what the officer did or to say how much better we would have handled it. We discuss it so that we can see the big picture and make an impression on our minds so that should we find ourselves in similar situations, we can react in a different way and hopefully win the day.


                        I couldn't agree more. It is utter stupidity NOT to try and learn something from calls where officers have made sacrifices in blood. Placing ourselves in these situations allows us to remove some mental barriers that might prevent us from acting when necessary. I liken it to placing a "slide" of the encounter in your "slide projector of scenarios." This is no different than learning from Deputy Kyle Dinkheller's murder: there is only one reason that a person is loading a rifle on a traffic stop.. to kill you!

                        When can you, as the responding officer, articulate that deadly force is justified for self-defense on your behalf? In defense of bystanders and other officers? I think everyone will agree that the best way to protect everyone is to quickly end the threat posed by the gunman in similar situations.

                        What if the gunman entered the bakery, after being told dozens of times to drop the gun, and killed everyone?

                        What if the gunman opened fire on the backup units and killed them all?

                        You can "what if" it ad nauseum. The important thing to do is to determine if you, as the responding officer, would do anything different to effect a better outcome. I wouldn't want any of you to lose an eye or worse, nor would I want a massacre of bystanders or other officers to occur.

                        As far as suicide by cop... who knows. I don't like this term. Maybe it was, maybe it wasn't. Who cares. At the time it is occurring, it is irrelevant. It's an after-the-fact "that's too bad s/he made the officer do that" thing. Sad? Only for the officer(s).

                        Someone pointing a long gun at you is an immediate threat to you and anyone around you. Action beats reaction. Look at it this way: would you want this officer as your backup in this situation? Honest question. If you were pinned down by a gunman who had leveled his shotgun at you, would you want your backup yelling until the gunman started firing at you?

                        We need to be prepared for these encounters to WIN the fight. I'm glad the officer survived, but let's be honest with ourselves.
                        Last edited by Resq14; 04-09-2011, 12:05 AM.
                        All Gave Some - Some Gave All

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Resq14 View Post
                          When can you, as the responding officer, articulate that deadly force is justified for self-defense on your behalf? In defense of bystanders and other officers?

                          What if the gunman entered the bakery, after being told dozens of times to drop the gun, and killed everyone?
                          What if the gunman opened fire on the backup units and killed them all?
                          This was my initial thought also. Who was he actually protecting by letting an armed man fire shots only yards away from bystanders?

                          I understand what people are saying is that it was decision and it appears to be a damn difficult one too, but just standing there seemed stupid. Shoot, take cover, retreat, go home... DO SOMETHING

                          I'm glad he is living to tell about it and I hope that none of you are ever put in that position.

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by HeadDoc View Post
                            I don't necessarily agree. It seems that he acted in accordance with his personal values and I respect that. There are people who would prefer death over placing an innocent bystander at risk. I also respect your position, but I don't agree that "Every LEO in the US should feel the same way." Every person should look inside him/herself, know his/her values, and act accordingly.
                            Actually I agree with everything that Madchicken said. The last thing that I want is to harm or by my inactions allow to be harmed an innocent civillian. These are my personal core values. If I allowed or I caused harm to an innocent bystander, It would eat away at me for the rest of my life.

                            With that being said, each officer not only has responsibility for the general public, but also to him/herself. No, I would not want to be FORCED to take a shot where I know that innocent bystanders are likely to get hit. However, if the threat presented to me is likely to end in my death or serious bodily injury, I have to roll the dice and pray for the best because I am taking that shot.

                            Me being neutralized or downed, not only forces others to tend to me while a threat is still present, but it also takes one more officer away from that scenario. The end result was still the same. The badguy had the oppurtunity to shoot at an officer (disabling him in the process) and the officers on scene returned fire. People were still in the bakery and an officer lost an eye. No matter what
                            is going on, you cant afford to let someone point a gun at you. Period...

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                            • #29
                              I have to agree that he should have been shot as he pointed the gun up range. If he's upset that he's not getting shot at, because this looks like a suicide by cop, then maybe he'd go into the bakery and shoot up innocents.

                              I'm not MMQB the Officer's decision. Just what I think I would do from the comfort of my own chair.

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by FlyingPig1 View Post
                                I was on a felony vehicle stop with a convenience store in my background. I had people walking without a care in the world directly behind the suspect while I had my gun pointed at him totally ignoring me and the situation. All they were concerned about was getting inside to get their gas pump started.
                                I'll admit that when I was younger I was extremely inebriated... I was standing on a sidewalk when cops drew down on this guy, and I was the background. I was saying to myself, "This seems a good time to leave..." but I was stuck. One of those "Oh @#$%" moments I suppose.
                                NYPD
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