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Bill would allow those in the military to drink even if under 21.

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  • #16
    Originally posted by DAL View Post
    Really? Perhaps so that they don't take the lives of the people they are supposed to be protecting.
    So people who drink only act irresponsible if they're between 18 and 21? Stupid-drunk doesn't depend on age.
    Lt. Col. Grace - "Lt. Murphey, why are you all dressed up to mack on the ladies?"
    Me - "Sir, you just answered your own question."

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    • #17
      Just remember this quote I made when I was 17. As I got out of the car, I stumbled. I turned to my friend and said, "It's a good thing I'm driving because I can barely walk!" It was funny then and the drinking age in my home state was 21 in the 70's.

      As for what the legal age for drinking should be? It should be the same as that at which an individual can enter into a legally binding contract (IOW: a legal adult). Joining up (without need for parental approval) is a contract, so that would be an age that would work. I agree that special classes shouldn't be created. Treat adults like adults.

      Deal with abuse, not use.
      Last edited by Bounce; 04-07-2011, 01:41 PM.

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      • #18
        Originally posted by Murf425 View Post
        So people who drink only act irresponsible if they're between 18 and 21? Stupid-drunk doesn't depend on age.
        No reasonable person who had an understanding of basic English would read my comment that way.

        The minimum drinking age used to be 18 in many states. As a condition of receiving federal highway money, states were required to raise the age to 21.

        There is quite a bit of research on drunk driving and the risks posed by different age groups that supported raising the drinking age from 18 to 21.
        Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored. -- Aldous Huxley
        Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity. -- Albert Einstein

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        • #19
          Originally posted by willbird View Post
          All the arguments for raising the drinking age to 21 are valid for raising it to 65 :-). I'm not in favor of special rights for anybody, either all 18 years olds can drink, or they cannot. IMHO the age should be 18.
          Do you have data and studies to support that? I seriously doubt it.
          Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored. -- Aldous Huxley
          Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity. -- Albert Einstein

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          • #20
            I realize your point DAL, but i'm curious how often you've been around 18-21ish range of people lately? Being in college I get a firsthand experience with this stuff, and I can honestly tell you that I have not met one single person out of high school, 18 or over, that has not drank alcohol. The under 21 law makes a lot of kids my age, or under 21, feel like bad***es because they are 'being rebellious'. They want to get blackout wasted and show it off to everyone that can see them that they are cool and drunk AND not even over 21! Lowering the age to 18 would take away that mentality from a lot of people and I believe in essence actually help the situation. A lot of young adults lose interest in partying and drinking after they turn 21 because it's no longer 'cool', and now it's actually legal. More money also needs to be spent on classes that help students with situations like that in college and 'real life'. High-schools need to recognize that you can't just tell kids to not drink and that's that. It's going to happen and you're going to get pressured with it and surrounded with it when you get out of high-school.
            Pursuing the dream.


            Awaiting the start of Academy... April 28th.

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            • #21
              That really is all moot. I suspect base commanders can make their own rules for the base, and I bet it ticks them off their younger soldiers might now be able to go off base and drink when they otherwise might not be permitted while on base.
              _____________
              "Corruptisima republica plurimae leges."

              "The more corrupt the state, the more numerous the laws."
              - Cornelius Tacitus

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              • #22
                Originally posted by Murf425 View Post
                So people who drink only act irresponsible if they're between 18 and 21? Stupid-drunk doesn't depend on age.
                Based on my experience, yes. I have had clubs with 18+ to enter and 21+ to drink. I have also seen many clubs that cater to 18+ crowd. They are definitely more immature and cause heck of a lot more trouble than any other age group. I eventually made everything I dealt with be 21+ I could charge triple the amount for entrance fees to 18-21 and it still would not have swayed my decision.

                Just because you serve(d) in the military at a young age doesn't mean you can handle the responsibility of drinking alone. From what I have learned about the military is that there is always a commanding officer nearby to get your butt in line if you act up or even think about acting up.

                Bringing the handgun debate into this argument doesn't change a thing. You can own rifles/shotguns/handguns at 18 (in most states I believe). The restrictions are placed on carrying them.

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by jjbledsoe View Post
                  I realize your point DAL, but i'm curious how often you've been around 18-21ish range of people lately? Being in college I get a firsthand experience with this stuff, and I can honestly tell you that I have not met one single person out of high school, 18 or over, that has not drank alcohol. The under 21 law makes a lot of kids my age, or under 21, feel like bad***es because they are 'being rebellious'. They want to get blackout wasted and show it off to everyone that can see them that they are cool and drunk AND not even over 21! Lowering the age to 18 would take away that mentality from a lot of people and I believe in essence actually help the situation. A lot of young adults lose interest in partying and drinking after they turn 21 because it's no longer 'cool', and now it's actually legal. More money also needs to be spent on classes that help students with situations like that in college and 'real life'. High-schools need to recognize that you can't just tell kids to not drink and that's that. It's going to happen and you're going to get pressured with it and surrounded with it when you get out of high-school.
                  The same could be said about kids speeding, doing drugs, and skipping school. It doesn't mean that we should do away with laws that regulate all of them.

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by jjbledsoe View Post
                    I realize your point DAL, but i'm curious how often you've been around 18-21ish range of people lately? Being in college I get a firsthand experience with this stuff, and I can honestly tell you that I have not met one single person out of high school, 18 or over, that has not drank alcohol. The under 21 law makes a lot of kids my age, or under 21, feel like bad***es because they are 'being rebellious'. They want to get blackout wasted and show it off to everyone that can see them that they are cool and drunk AND not even over 21! Lowering the age to 18 would take away that mentality from a lot of people and I believe in essence actually help the situation. A lot of young adults lose interest in partying and drinking after they turn 21 because it's no longer 'cool', and now it's actually legal. More money also needs to be spent on classes that help students with situations like that in college and 'real life'. High-schools need to recognize that you can't just tell kids to not drink and that's that. It's going to happen and you're going to get pressured with it and surrounded with it when you get out of high-school.
                    You mean, like when I arrest them for drunk driving?

                    Indeed, the problem is that they DO drink alcohol, and many are so irresponsible that they drive while under the influence. That was why the drinking age was raised from 18 to 21.

                    I was an officer in the Navy during the Vietnam war and, as OOD had to deal with the aftermath of sailors who were arrested for public drunkenness. Fortunately, most enlisted men in the Navy did not have cars.
                    Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored. -- Aldous Huxley
                    Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity. -- Albert Einstein

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                    • #25
                      If you are allowed to sign up and take up a very dangerous job to protect your country then maybe a perk like that would be nice. And isn't the 21 drinking age mainly an American thing, I see that most of the world uses the universal 18 years of age.
                      Life is what you make of it

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                      • #26
                        Every GI/Airman/Marine/Coastie/Squid I know at 18-19-20 is drinking if they want to....it's there....it's easy to get.....very, very easy to get if you want it.......

                        Why not make it legal.....?

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by jannino View Post
                          Based on my experience, yes. I have had clubs with 18+ to enter and 21+ to drink. I have also seen many clubs that cater to 18+ crowd. They are definitely more immature and cause heck of a lot more trouble than any other age group. I eventually made everything I dealt with be 21+ I could charge triple the amount for entrance fees to 18-21 and it still would not have swayed my decision.

                          Just because you serve(d) in the military at a young age doesn't mean you can handle the responsibility of drinking alone. From what I have learned about the military is that there is always a commanding officer nearby to get your butt in line if you act up or even think about acting up.

                          There's not somebody around you at all times making sure you don't screw up while you're in the military. It's not like there's an officer walking around holding your hand at all times telling you what not to do. Every weekend you're on your own and free to do what you please with little to no supervision. The only time that that there's someone around to watch what you're doing is when you stay in the barracks on the weekends but even then the duty NCO probably wouldn't know or care if you were drinking as long as you weren't doing anything stupid.

                          Just for the record though. Most people start drinking in high school anyway so the age limit being 21 isn't doing much to stop teenagers from drinking.

                          Bringing the handgun debate into this argument doesn't change a thing. You can own rifles/shotguns/handguns at 18 (in most states I believe). The restrictions are placed on carrying them.
                          "Good people sleep well in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to commit acts of violence on their behalf."

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                          • #28
                            There's not somebody around you at all times making sure you don't screw up while you're in the military. It's not like there's an officer walking around holding your hand at all times telling you what not to do. Every weekend you're on your own and free to do what you please with little to no supervision. The only time that that there's someone around to watch what you're doing is when you stay in the barracks on the weekends but even then the duty NCO probably wouldn't know or care if you were drinking as long as you weren't doing anything stupid.

                            Just for the record though. Most people start drinking in high school anyway so the age limit being 21 isn't doing much to stop teenagers from drinking.

                            Whoops! I screwed up that last post somehow and didn't realize I was typing in the quote section. This is what I meant to say.
                            "Good people sleep well in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to commit acts of violence on their behalf."

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                            • #29
                              What about the millions of 18-21 that live in a city and neither hold a license or have access to a car.

                              Making a legal drinking age is really pointless based on DUI since it's illegal for ANY age to be DUI.

                              Speeding is the number one reason for deaths in that ahe group yet we allow a 16yr old to drive any car from 80hp vw beetle to a 600hp car capable of 3 times the legal speed limits. If you support a legal drinkig age then you should support speedlimit governors on all cars including yours.
                              Any views or opinions presented by this prenomen are solely those of a burlesque author and do not necessarily represent those of a LEA or caementum couturier.

                              nom de plume

                              This is the internet- take all information with a grain of salt. Such could be valid and true or could be typed just for playing devils advocate.

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by ryker View Post
                                What about the millions of 18-21 that live in a city and neither hold a license or have access to a car.

                                Making a legal drinking age is really pointless based on DUI since it's illegal for ANY age to be DUI.

                                Speeding is the number one reason for deaths in that ahe group yet we allow a 16yr old to drive any car from 80hp vw beetle to a 600hp car capable of 3 times the legal speed limits. If you support a legal drinkig age then you should support speedlimit governors on all cars including yours.
                                I don't find such arguments persuasive, and I value data more than speculation. The construct "We do one stupid thing, therefore we should do another stupid thing" leaves me flat, as does the similar argument that we should solve all the worl's problems or none of them. You know, we can never eliminate all homicides, so we shouldn't bother trying to reduce the number.

                                How many big cities are there in Alaska? And this is worth forfeiting federal highway money for?

                                Traffic accident and fatality statistics showed that 18-21 year-olds were more dangerous when they drove after drinking. That seems like a very rational basis for the legislation.
                                Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored. -- Aldous Huxley
                                Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity. -- Albert Einstein

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