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  • Originally posted by S.O.444 View Post
    My older sister is a middle school teacher, so all of this talk about teachers being overpaid and griping about school taxes being too high, at least in my state, is a bunch of crap.

    Otherwise, bite the bullet, pay the taxes, and enjoy the knowledge that your community is fostering a new, better future for our country.
    I haven't seen anyone say that teachers are payed too much.

    High taxes do not correlate directly with teacher's salaries, working conditions or student performance.

    Unfortunately, great teachers cannot be payed more than mediocre teachers.

    We've been biting the bullet but not see excellence come out of schools. Would doubling our taxes fix it?

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    • JasperST, I think you missed my point. Schools have several unfunded or partially funded mandates. Couple that with what is acceptable in the community (ie, teachers don't spank students anymore), and it makes for an interesting challenge. It used to be what teachers said was gospel truth. Now, when the teacher calls home the parent makes some lame excuse for why the kid is the way s/he is. The kid used to get in trouble twice. Now, they don't get in trouble at home. What really can a teacher do? Keep them in at recess? I'm sure that'll deter their behavior...

      Sure, we are paying more taxes and education costs more than it used to. But, both the rules and the measure of success is different.

      Twenty years ago, standardized testing didn't affect graduation rates. Now it does.

      As far as mediocre teachers getting paid the same as great teachers... is not the same true in police work? Mediocre officers get paid the same as great officers, right?

      In education, as long as schools track (ie, the better/smarter kids go to teacher A or school A, while the less capable kids go to teacher B or school B) and students come from a wide variety of backgrounds with different levels of support outside the classroom (ie, one kid goes home and homework/learning is the priority, while the next kid goes home and s/he runs the neighborhood until midnight), there's really no way to reliably and validly measure teacher performance.

      The two most widely recognized measures of predicting graduation rates are: 1- parental college experience, ie, the more the parents went to college, the more likely the kid will graduate; and, 2- socioeconomic status, ie, the more money a family has the more likely the kid will graduate.

      The rules have changed, the measure of success has changed, and the middle class is shrinking. On the plus side, college graduation rates are up slightly. By the way, in 1990 the US HS graduation rate was 71.18%. In 2008, it was 70.06%.
      Last edited by hopperja; 04-13-2011, 03:17 PM.

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      • Originally posted by hopperja View Post
        JasperST, I think you missed my point. Schools have several unfunded or partially funded mandates. Couple that with what is acceptable in the community (ie, teachers don't spank students anymore)...
        I'm not disagreeing with any of that. I have friends that are teachers and know the routine. My beef is with the way the funding is represented by the left and the media. Any shortage translates into teachers getting a pay cut. That puts the heat on the teachers, they picket right before school and the cycle continues.

        I see it with city funding too. Any shortage means less Officers on the street, more crime, etc. IF teachers or cops are the first thing to get cut and the last thing to get funded then the priorities are wrong. And deliberately represented that way to get what they want. I wish the people were smart enough to fire them and get people in that had their priorities straight but instead they are led like livestock to the shed and milked some more.
        Sure, we are paying more taxes and education costs more than it used to. But, both the rules and the measure of success is different.

        Twenty years ago, standardized testing didn't affect graduation rates. Now it does.
        And I hear college professors complain that they are coming out of high school with 2nd grade reading skills.
        ...there's really no way to reliably and validly measure teacher performance.
        The kids know. Maybe they could ask them?
        The two most widely recognized measures of predicting graduation rates are: 1- parental college experience, ie, the more the parents went to college, the more likely the kid will graduate; and, 2- socioeconomic status, ie, the more money a family has the more likely the kid will graduate.

        The rules have changed, the measure of success has changed, and the middle class is shrinking. On the plus side, college graduation rates are up slightly. By the way, in 1990 the US HS graduation rate was 71.18%. In 2008, it was 70.06%.
        Which means nothing really. The fact that academically were have slipped down to near third world status shows a clearer picture. If the rules have changed, the union changed it and I think more money is just going to benefit them, not the kids or the teachers.

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        • Originally posted by jd08 View Post
          I find it odd that the perception from the general public is that "The police pepper sprayed an 8 year old!" instead of "An 8 year old was acting out so badly he got pepper sprayed!".
          You got that one right! It should really say "Due to parents being afraid to use corporal punishment on their children for fear of them being taken by Family Services, an 8 year old has been pepper sprayed!"

          It could happen.
          I'm old......that's all.

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