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Female Muslim LEOs wearing hijabs in the US?

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  • #76
    Originally posted by armydiver View Post
    the bible clearly states that jesus and god are the same person. John 10:30, james 1:17, etc. That being said, god commanded the obliteration of entire nations to include their women, children, livestock etc... "you shall save alive nothing that breathes, you shall devote them to complete destruction" he commanded this to happen to more than 7 nations of people. While jesus may have come across as a peace loving hippy, his father (who he is... Whatever) obviously has no issue with war or the destruction of an entire people.
    Oh, give us a break. You can't mention Jesus and then ignore the New Testament. Clearly the Bible has been misused in the past, still is, but not to the extent that The Koran is being used or misused today.
    ... however one could argue that women should be required to have short hair the same as male officers for those reasons.
    You won't find much support for a Christian theocracy even amongst fundamentalists but that's not true with Islam.

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    • #77
      wow!
      DOA...calm down, brother. No need to get this worked up over an Internet forum

      NO, nobody should be able to wear hijabs in LE....I rest on the uniform and saftey examples.

      YES, if obama said they had to it would not surprise me, as this appears to be a "more tolerant" "touchy feely" administration

      Find the political forum to slurp on obama and bash those you dont agree with, but my God, (no offense to you and some of you others if that word offends), relax a bit.
      "I don't go on "I'maworthlesscumdumpster.com" and post negative **** about cum dumpsters."
      The Tick

      "Are you referring to the secret headquarters of a fictional crime fighter or penal complex slang for a-$$hole, anus or rectum?"
      sanitizer

      "and we all know you are a poser and a p*ssy.... "
      Bearcat357 to Dinner Portion/buck8/long relief

      Comment


      • #78
        Originally posted by JasperST View Post
        Oh, give us a break. You can't mention Jesus and then ignore the New Testament. Clearly the Bible has been misused in the past, still is, but not to the extent that The Koran is being used or misused today.
        You won't find much support for a Christian theocracy even amongst fundamentalists but that's not true with Islam.
        And conversely you can't ignore the old testament. I mentioned the New Testament. The statement was that Jesus would be against the wars... I feel differently. You're a fan of the old law / new law argument... kudos. I think it's total ****. But, hey... life goes on. Unless you're suggesting that the trinity doesn't exist or that I'm somehow misunderstanding it, I fail to see how the actions of God are not also those of Jesus. Arguing the "New Testament" thing only serves to remove the omnipotence of God... which weakens the religion quite a bit.

        You can believe whatever you want... I'm simply voicing a counter argument. Not starting a fight.

        And to stay on topic, Hijabs are retarded.
        I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man's reasoning powers are not above the monkey's.
        - Mark Twain

        Comment


        • #79
          Originally posted by ArmyDiver View Post
          And conversely you can't ignore the old testament. I mentioned the New Testament. The statement was that Jesus would be against the wars... I feel differently. You're a fan of the old law / new law argument... kudos. I think it's total ****. But, hey... life goes on. Unless you're suggesting that the trinity doesn't exist or that I'm somehow misunderstanding it, I fail to see how the actions of God are not also those of Jesus. Arguing the "New Testament" thing only serves to remove the omnipotence of God... which weakens the religion quite a bit.

          You can believe whatever you want... I'm simply voicing a counter argument. Not starting a fight.
          It isn't a BS argument...or a fight. The NT is what Christianity is based on whether one agrees with it or not. Holding them to OT standards doesn't make sense, even orthodox Jews don't live under OT Law.

          Comment


          • #80
            why can't we all get along??

            Comment


            • #81
              Originally posted by armydiver View Post
              the bible clearly states that jesus and god are the same person. John 10:30, james 1:17, etc. 18). He has no compassion upon his enemies, whom he will conquer completely and consign to a “fiery lake of burning sulfur” (v. 20). If you apply fundamentalist christianity to it, he'd probably come back and ask why we haven't just whipped them off the map.
              Wow that's a great point you made about Christianity. Churches then are clearly indoctrination centers since growing up those pesky Sunday school teachers telling me that hurting people and war should be avoided at all costs. Even the Pope disagreed with us raging war. Not to mention on how Jesus and God were the same person. Man I was brainwashed in church because they never told me that! Since God has the power to destroy the wicked do you think we are doing Gods work by waging these wars or are we going to be the wicked ones that should or will be wiped?
              Again if Jesus showed up today I doubt he would be picking up an M4. But alas this is about hijabs not god. I digress.
              And since we are throwing versus around perhaps look at Romans 13:1-7 when you complain about Obamacare.



              Originally posted by armydiver View Post
              You say it yourself "have allowed it." inferring a deviation from the uniform. Having the same pattern camouflage or uniform is not uniformity. If you can't wear a kevlar because your have a turban on, you're not uniform. If you have a beard (for non-medical reasons.. Which is hardly considered a beard) you're not uniform. If you must cover your head and face or ankles and elbows, you are not uniform. Allowing these things for select people destroys the idea of uniformity. Sure, we can allow it... But where does it stop? My religion states that i must wear a voltron suit every monday and thursday while consuming approximately 12 grams of peyote. We allow that for other religions, why not mine? You see where i'm going? Sure, it's extreme, but it's not far from where we're at now.
              A case by case basis is needed because a FULL hijab is not functional however a small headscarf works fine Uniforms are always changing. The Sikhs can wear a turban and kevlar along with their helmets. They can seal a gas mask while wearing a beard. They have done this over several wars.
              The tired comparison of made up religions is...tiring. Also the argument for mind altering drugs is absurd.

              Originally posted by armydiver View Post
              It comes down to the individual. Everyone is responsible for their choices in life. If you choose to strictly adhere to a particular religious practice, then it is on you to make sacrifices in careers that do not conform... It is not on them to conform to you. But for some reason, everyone in america feels the world revolves around them and they have their "right" to do whatever they want. Somehow, i don't think the founding fathers were considering things this trivial when they made the bill of rights. It's too easy... If it doesn't work for you and your religion, find a different line of work. You don't see muslims lining up to work at slaughterhouses because it conflicts with their beliefs, are they going to ask the slaughterhouse to stop processing pigs because they want a job?
              I guarantee that is Christians were made to wear some type of head gear we would be wearing it at our professions. I strongly doubt that the founding fathers would be prohibiting a s Sikh from wearing a modified turban. The issue with Muslims working at slaughterhouse is a weak example. The job requires you touch the meat. Again why do men wear short hair as police and military? Why can''t a male wear long hair the same as a woman? Its a societal answer not an officer safety or uniformed one.

              Too bad we won't see this has a proud moment as a country and as a service based on the prejudices of the past. Instead we complain and again use "uniformity" as a front.
              Disclaimer: The writer does not represent any organization, employer, entity or other individual. The views expressed are those only of the writer. In the case of a sarcastic, facetious, nonsensical, stirring-the-pot, controversial or devil's advocate-type post, the views expressed may not even reflect those of the writer [This sig stolen from Brickcop who stole it from Frank Booth].

              Comment


              • #82
                Originally posted by That Guy View Post
                Wow that's a great point you made about Christianity. Churches then are clearly indoctrination centers since growing up those pesky Sunday school teachers telling me that hurting people and war should be avoided at all costs. Even the Pope disagreed with us raging war. Not to mention on how Jesus and God were the same person. Man I was brainwashed in church because they never told me that! Since God has the power to destroy the wicked do you think we are doing Gods work by waging these wars or are we going to be the wicked ones that should or will be wiped?
                Again if Jesus showed up today I doubt he would be picking up an M4. But alas this is about hijabs not god. I digress.
                And since we are throwing versus around perhaps look at Romans 13:1-7 when you complain about Obamacare.
                I'll see your sarcasm and raise you a ""

                In an effort to not derail the topic any more than it has been, I'll leave my argument for a different day. I don't believe in God, in any way, shape, or form, so I'm confident I was doing the Government's work and yes, I do think we'll be wiped out... but not because of our wickedness, more because of our incessant need to kiss the *** of everyone who gets butthurt about something and change and adapt for them.




                Originally posted by That Guy View Post
                A case by case basis is needed because a FULL hijab is not functional however a small headscarf works fine Uniforms are always changing. The Sikhs can wear a turban and kevlar along with their helmets. They can seal a gas mask while wearing a beard. They have done this over several wars.
                The tired comparison of made up religions is...tiring. Also the argument for mind altering drugs is absurd.
                But doesn't case by case basis kind of remove the whole uniformity thing? Yes, uniforms change... but not for a half dozen people, for everyone.. thus the uniformity. I'm not arguing that these religious outfits aren't functional (to a point) they simply aren't uniform.

                As for my "made up religion," My religion shares the same level of proof and validity that any other religion does. It just doesn't have the same size following. Tiring as it may be, it's really only an amalgamation of current accepted religions given a new name. As for the peyote, Native American tribes are allowed to use it during ceremonial and religious times.


                Originally posted by That Guy View Post
                I guarantee that is Christians were made to wear some type of head gear we would be wearing it at our professions. I strongly doubt that the founding fathers would be prohibiting a s Sikh from wearing a modified turban. The issue with Muslims working at slaughterhouse is a weak example. The job requires you touch the meat. Again why do men wear short hair as police and military? Why can''t a male wear long hair the same as a woman? Its a societal answer not an officer safety or uniformed one.
                I agree, in a country dominated by a particular religion, the vast majority would conform to that almost to a uniform appearance. The difference is, I wouldn't show up demanding that I not wear a particular piece of the uniform or add to it because I was of a different religion or lack of one. I would look at the uniform, realize I can not meet that standard, and seek other employment. Too easy. The founding fathers didn't even want to count slaves as people... they only did so in order to get the southern states on board. I have no trouble imagining George Washington bitch slapping a Sikh and telling him to take that stupid rag off his head. Does that apply to modern civil rights or would I personally do such a thing, no, but I doubt it was what they were going for when they made the bill of rights.

                As for the short hair thing, that's a grooming standard based in hygiene. Women are in non-combat roles and are afforded a certain level of femininity. Instead of breaking the male grooming standards down by MOS, they took a uniformed approach and spread it across the board. The fact that women don't have to do it, is simply another example of special treatment for special groups.


                Originally posted by That Guy View Post
                Too bad we won't see this has a proud moment as a country and as a service based on the prejudices of the past. Instead we complain and again use "uniformity" as a front.
                You'll forgive me but I don't see anything as a proud moment for my country when we bend over and take it sideways with no lube from certain groups who demand us to adjust to their whims and wills. Civil/racial injustices aside, this is America... if you don't like it here, then don't come. When my ancestors came to this country they had to learn the language, have a skill, work hard, and adapt to the country they wanted to be a part of. Now, you come to America, tell us we're wrong, make us change to meet your needs, and bend to your will because you want to live here... I'm sorry, but I'm not going to call that a proud moment.
                I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man's reasoning powers are not above the monkey's.
                - Mark Twain

                Comment


                • #83
                  Originally posted by LaPlaca View Post
                  Wierd. never seen bill of rights and islam in the same sentence let alone an insinuation that they could co-exist. stupid nick berg. all he had to do was wave a bill of rights in front of his captors and hed still have his head. oh well....
                  What religions have you seen in the same sentence with the constitution?
                  Retired

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                  • #84
                    right on retired!!!!!!

                    Comment


                    • #85
                      I saw comments on page one reference American ways, ideas, standards, etc. I *think* it was LaPlaca and Greenzone. Can you two tell me exactly what American way, ideas, standards are? We were founded on being different that any other socieity with a ratical notion of democracy and freedom and now it seems some want to draw a line on where that freedom stops? I don't really understand that.

                      As for 'uniform'...as a woman in LE, I'm rather glad that some decided to deviate from uniformity otherwise my female brethern and I wouldn't have the jobs we do. I don't recall a time in this country where change hasn't been ongoing. Some of it for the good and some of it not, but I dare say the majority has not always been "right" about what is best for this country.
                      sigpic

                      I don't agree with your opinion, but I respect its straightforwardness in terms of wrongness.

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                      • #86
                        I think "uniform" was referring to the actual uniform worn by LEOs...at least that was my interpretation...NOT the "only males should be LEOs" way of thinking
                        "I don't go on "I'maworthlesscumdumpster.com" and post negative **** about cum dumpsters."
                        The Tick

                        "Are you referring to the secret headquarters of a fictional crime fighter or penal complex slang for a-$$hole, anus or rectum?"
                        sanitizer

                        "and we all know you are a poser and a p*ssy.... "
                        Bearcat357 to Dinner Portion/buck8/long relief

                        Comment


                        • #87
                          I know the context that uniform was used in, but butted up to the other ideas of not wanting anyone/anything different would be the other definition of uniform and I found it ironic, is all.

                          I don't care what my fellow Officers believe. I only expect them to do the job w/o bias (against anything be it race, gender, creed, religion, etc). I am careful of anyone that wants to block a person because of their religious preference. That's a slippery slope, IMHO
                          sigpic

                          I don't agree with your opinion, but I respect its straightforwardness in terms of wrongness.

                          Comment


                          • #88
                            ^^^ Yeah, I will say that the thread took off on a slightly different path regarding religion. The original question was about "dress" for female cops....which, no... wouldnt fly for many reasons.
                            "I don't go on "I'maworthlesscumdumpster.com" and post negative **** about cum dumpsters."
                            The Tick

                            "Are you referring to the secret headquarters of a fictional crime fighter or penal complex slang for a-$$hole, anus or rectum?"
                            sanitizer

                            "and we all know you are a poser and a p*ssy.... "
                            Bearcat357 to Dinner Portion/buck8/long relief

                            Comment


                            • #89
                              crass-crop,, correct! i think someone else mentioned that in the thread a ahwile ago but people have choosen a different path! I am noticing that alot on certain threads! oh well... at least we have this to express or vent or give advice or opionon!

                              Comment


                              • #90
                                Originally posted by ArmyDiver View Post
                                I'll see your sarcasm and raise you a ""



                                Originally posted by ArmyDiver View Post
                                As for the short hair thing, that's a grooming standard based in hygiene. Women are in non-combat roles and are afforded a certain level of femininity. Instead of breaking the male grooming standards down by MOS, they took a uniformed approach and spread it across the board. The fact that women don't have to do it, is simply another example of special treatment for special groups.
                                Perhaps in a military sense but in an LE its not a hygiene issue. Why can't I as a male have long hair? Again that's a social decision.


                                Originally posted by ArmyDiver View Post
                                You'll forgive me but I don't see anything as a proud moment for my country when we bend over and take it sideways with no lube from certain groups who demand us to adjust to their whims and wills. Civil/racial injustices aside, this is America... if you don't like it here, then don't come. When my ancestors came to this country they had to learn the language, have a skill, work hard, and adapt to the country they wanted to be a part of. Now, you come to America, tell us we're wrong, make us change to meet your needs, and bend to your will because you want to live here... I'm sorry, but I'm not going to call that a proud moment.
                                Same could be said about if you don't like the changes happening here you can leave. People are so scared about changes; I don't get it(not saying you are). Granted segregation of the schools and military are different then wearing a turban but I think the principle is the same. Granted military equipment and conditions vary so I can understand issues there but not in LE. I guess I just like the fact of seeing different nationalities and religions making up a countries military and police as its shows a real reflection of our community and citizens.

                                Originally posted by Smurfette_76 View Post
                                I don't care what my fellow Officers believe. I only expect them to do the job w/o bias (against anything be it race, gender, creed, religion, etc). I am careful of anyone that wants to block a person because of their religious preference. That's a slippery slope, IMHO
                                +1 This is why turbans, head scarfs, yarmulkes. don't bother me nor distract me from the job I have to do.
                                Last edited by That Guy; 03-30-2011, 04:36 PM.
                                Disclaimer: The writer does not represent any organization, employer, entity or other individual. The views expressed are those only of the writer. In the case of a sarcastic, facetious, nonsensical, stirring-the-pot, controversial or devil's advocate-type post, the views expressed may not even reflect those of the writer [This sig stolen from Brickcop who stole it from Frank Booth].

                                Comment

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