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New Jersey Officers Hold Massive Rally Against Governer

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  • Originally posted by pfchell View Post
    do the job, but earn it honestly which that the money is worth it. wth..you know, i dont like the f word, lately i seen that around alot.. i do not allow it on my farm. my children and grandkids know the result of consquences.
    Yep, and they have the pitchfork holes to prove it.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by pfchell View Post
      is the BIG problem !! 161,000 a year, there's many other fat loaded judges made alot more than that.
      still 161,000 is too much. not to mention that their expenses, clothes, transportation, security and other perks are paid for by our taxes. why need that much ? hell, i could live comfortably on 30,000 a year on a pinch.
      Well, I guess if you could live on $30,000.00 per year, then there's no reason we shouldn't pay judges (or cops for that matter) the same? Please tell me what kind of lawyers are going to get appointments (as judges) for that kind of pay, when their brethren are being paid far more in the private sector? What kind of decisions are they going to make (and why?) when lawyer "A" and lawyer "B" present opposing arguments and case law supporting their clients' positions? What kind of "justice" are the citizens going to get in this kind of system?

      People have a pretty short memory when it comes to the quality of law enforcement that was traditionally "expected" back in the 1930's, 40's, and 50's. If you really think the fact a cop could "live on $30,000.00 per year" justifies only paying LEOs that much, I guess you don't expect any better service from them than you'd get from any other $30k employee. Personally, I want someone with better personal and professional qualifications than the local 7-11 manager, if/when I call "911" or have a case go to court for trial. We didn't reach the level of professionalism in this country for LE or our courts by paying for justice on the "cheap" and expecting public employees to get whatever they wanted (beyond their salaries) by "any means necessary."

      When judges are entrusted to decide whether or not someone is imprisoned for years, faces the death penalty or is awarded millions of dollars in a civil case, I don't want them to be less knowledgeable in legal matters than the attorneys involved or easily influenced by those with the most money. When someone is willing to provide their services without compensation, it's perfectly reasonable to ask, 'Why' and every taxpayer should.
      "I'm not fluent in the language of violence, but I know enough to get around in places where it's spoken."

      Comment


      • whoa..

        Originally posted by pulicords View Post
        Well, I guess if you could live on $30,000.00 per year, then there's no reason we shouldn't pay judges (or cops for that matter) the same? Please tell me what kind of lawyers are going to get appointments (as judges) for that kind of pay, when their brethren are being paid far more in the private sector? What kind of decisions are they going to make (and why?) when lawyer "A" and lawyer "B" present opposing arguments and case law supporting their clients' positions? What kind of "justice" are the citizens going to get in this kind of system?

        People have a pretty short memory when it comes to the quality of law enforcement that was traditionally "expected" back in the 1930's, 40's, and 50's. If you really think the fact a cop could "live on $30,000.00 per year" justifies only paying LEOs that much, I guess you don't expect any better service from them than you'd get from any other $30k employee. Personally, I want someone with better personal and professional qualifications than the local 7-11 manager, if/when I call "911" or have a case go to court for trial. We didn't reach the level of professionalism in this country for LE or our courts by paying for justice on the "cheap" and expecting public employees to get whatever they wanted (beyond their salaries) by "any means necessary."

        When judges are entrusted to decide whether or not someone is imprisoned for years, faces the death penalty or is awarded millions of dollars in a civil case, I don't want them to be less knowledgeable in legal matters than the attorneys involved or easily influenced by those with the most money. When someone is willing to provide their services without compensation, it's perfectly reasonable to ask, 'Why' and every taxpayer should.
        where did i say the cops should or shouldnt ? i say the judges. actually i think the cops should earn the other way around of what the judges earn. like i say "then do the job honestly and earn the money....
        ok, here's another thing.. i havent seen a beat street patrol cop waiting at the door of biggest bank and just waiting for the banker to come out to arrest him .. have you seen one ? give me one ? just one .. you have nothing. i wish seen that.
        break censorship chains

        Comment


        • Originally posted by pfchell View Post
          where did i say the cops should or shouldnt ? i say the judges. actually i think the cops should earn the other way around of what the judges earn. like i say "then do the job honestly and earn the money....
          ok, here's another thing.. i havent seen a beat street patrol cop waiting at the door of biggest bank and just waiting for the banker to come out to arrest him .. have you seen one ? give me one ? just one .. you have nothing. i wish seen that.
          What use are good cops when you have underpaid prosecutors and judges?

          Comment


          • Originally posted by pfchell View Post
            ok, here's another thing.. i havent seen a beat street patrol cop waiting at the door of biggest bank and just waiting for the banker to come out to arrest him .. have you seen one ? give me one ? just one .. you have nothing. i wish seen that.
            The problem is (was) in this country's not so distant past, officers weren't paid well at all and they were expected to supplement their income by doing some rather unsavory things (ie: taking bribes or committing acts of extortion). In other nations this is still the case. One doesn't have to look any further than our "neighbor to the south" (Mexico) to see this is still the case, and it doesn't just apply to police officers. Judicial authorities (judges) there are frequently paid off and few citizens of that country have any trust in their justice system. BTW: "Mordida" (the expectation of a bribe in exchange for not arresting someone stopped on a traffic violation) might not be encountered as often here as it is in Mexico now, but it used to be a common practice in the United States.
            "I'm not fluent in the language of violence, but I know enough to get around in places where it's spoken."

            Comment


            • Another thing that people don't mention that may skew the numbers is the fact that almost all public employees undergo some sort of background check. Not all go through what those in LE go through, but you'd be hard pressed to find any ex-offender in public employment. Even the maintenance guy at my office has to have a clean record because this guy is always around our offices which contain files on criminals.

              So, these folks( ex-offenders)have to work somewhere and it's usually at Mickey Dees, part time and for minimum wage. Add students to this group because in addition to being jobs that nobody wants, they are also transient jobs. Not many of these types in the public sector as many come in with the intention of staying for 20 years. But again, they trade security and a chance to serve the public with the opportunity for wealth.

              So if you're looking at the average Joe worker in the average Joe job, this of course skews the numbers in favor of the public sector.


              "Jerry, just remember, it’s not a lie if you believe it". George Constanza.

              Comment


              • Any job where you can earn 100k or more, that does not require a college degree, is somewhat unique....I don't think you will find very many such non union jobs NOT based on commissions from sales.
                Just pay your dues, and be quiet :-)

                Comment


                • Originally posted by willbird View Post
                  Any job where you can earn 100k or more, that does not require a college degree, is somewhat unique....I don't think you will find very many such non union jobs NOT based on commissions from sales.
                  And not too many union jobs where you could make $500 K like you can based on commission from sales. Some people like to sing for their dinner and we don't hold that against them.

                  As for where you can make 100 K in a GOVT job without a college degree, let me know where I can find one. I have a law degree and make 54K. If it's police officer you're referring to, many require degrees and even so, you are expected to be able to write and think as though you are on a college educated level. Add to this the danger that most of the sallies who are private employees will never face, there is your justification.


                  "Jerry, just remember, it’s not a lie if you believe it". George Constanza.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Ex Army MP View Post
                    And not too many union jobs where you could make $500 K like you can based on commission from sales. Some people like to sing for their dinner and we don't hold that against them.

                    As for where you can make 100 K in a GOVT job without a college degree, let me know where I can find one. I have a law degree and make 54K. If it's police officer you're referring to, many require degrees and even so, you are expected to be able to write and think as though you are on a college educated level. Add to this the danger that most of the sallies who are private employees will never face, there is your justification.
                    And that is what about 3x what a soldier on the line in the sandbox earns ? And those guys cannot say "I'm not doing that, I quit, I'm done, seeya"

                    Bill
                    Last edited by willbird; 03-10-2011, 11:21 AM.
                    Just pay your dues, and be quiet :-)

                    Comment


                    • January 11, 2011
                      Dear Lumberton Resident,
                      Over the past several weeks, many of you may have heard various rumors about the
                      Lumberton Police Department. I would like to take a few minutes of your time to
                      provide you some background as well as information about recent developments.
                      The Township has been in contract negotiations with the local police union and their state
                      union representative for almost two years. We are currently in binding arbitration. The
                      binding arbitration process involves a state appointed mediator meeting with
                      representatives of the Township and the union to help reach a mutually agreeable
                      contract, and if this is not possible, impose a state mandated contract on both parties.
                      The recent changes passed by the legislature will help speed up the process, but do not
                      deal with all of the problems faced by our township in our negotiations with the police
                      union. They also do not address the unfortunate problem where the police union utilizes
                      ‘information leaks’ and word of mouth campaigns to scare Lumberton residents into
                      supporting the union position in the contract negotiations.
                      However, I want to set the record straight. The problem our township is facing is not
                      whether the Township Committee supports our Police Department. We do. The problem
                      is that, like many other towns in New Jersey, we are facing shortfalls in revenue.
                      Everyone knows about state aid cutbacks, (Lumberton lost approximately $330,000 last
                      year), but other losses far exceed that amount.
                      Virtually all of the other shortfalls stem from the fact that our town is no longer growing.
                      When all three of our last union contracts were negotiated, in 2003, the town was adding
                      around $32 million dollars of new tax ratables each year. That helped to generate $3.5
                      million dollars in surplus revenue. That money was used to fund the cost of our township
                      government, and keep taxes down. When our current union contracts expired in 2008, the
                      new tax ratable dwindled to only $5.4 million in new construction, contributing to a $2.2
                      million dollar of surplus revenue in 2008. This decrease in construction and surplus
                      revenue impacts other revenues also, such as construction fees and interest income.
                      35 Municipal Drive, Lumberton, New Jersey 08048
                      Phone (609) 267-3217 • Fax (609) 267-5566
                      Combined, the losses in these revenues far exceed our loss in state aid over the last
                      several years. This loss in revenue has created a structural gap within our budget that we
                      must overcome. While we have been able to stay within state mandated tax rate
                      limitations by keeping spending flat over the last several years, the process has not been
                      painless and is reaching its limits.
                      A glance at this year’s budget reveals that 42% of our expenditures go to cover the costs
                      of providing police services. Any attempt to control Township government spending
                      cannot ignore that big a piece of the pie. Our goal is to get a contract that will sustain
                      present levels of service and be supported by the taxpayers.
                      The Township Committee has the responsibility to negotiate the best possible deal with
                      our unions and vendors before asking our taxpayers to fund the structural budget gap. I
                      encourage each of you to view the current union contracts which are posted on the
                      townships web page (www.lumbertontwp.com). You will ultimately have the final say
                      when you are asked to vote on a tax increase to support these services. It is our job to
                      make sure you have the facts so you can make an informed decision.
                      I can assure you that the Township is bargaining in good faith and representing the
                      interest of all of Lumberton residents. I, along with the rest of the Township Committee,
                      am committed to public safety and will do everything possible to keep our police
                      department, in addition to all of our other public services, intact.
                      We are also committed to ensuring that our municipal government provides the best
                      possible services, including policing, within today’s extreme financial constraints. Make
                      no mistake, public safety has been and will remain a top priority.
                      At the end of the arbitration process, we will have a contract. The contract will be an
                      open public record, and we will make it available on the township web site just as the
                      current contract is available for you to download. At that time, you will be able to make
                      an informed decision as to whether we are representing your interests based on the facts
                      and not self serving propaganda.
                      If you have any questions about the process, please feel free to contact me (609 722-2082
                      or [email protected]) or any members of the Township Committee.
                      Sincerely,
                      Mike Mansdoerfer
                      Mayor
                      35 Municipal Drive, Lumberton, New Jersey 08048
                      Phone (609) 267-3217 • Fax (609) 267-5566

                      I live in Lumberton and pay over 12,000 a year in property taxes. The above is an example of the skewed B.S i recieve in the mail every other day. The township would lay off half of the department if they get their way.
                      Last edited by safetyallday; 03-10-2011, 11:34 AM.
                      It's better to be hated for what you are, then to be loved for what you are not.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by willbird View Post
                        Any job where you can earn 100k or more, that does not require a college degree, is somewhat unique....I don't think you will find very many such non union jobs NOT based on commissions from sales.

                        That is unique. Any pd I'm aware of if NJ making over 100k requires at least an associates with 2 years of law enforcement experience but more than likely won't hire unless you have a bachelors or above.

                        Not to mention in my pd Sgt's and up must have a minimum of a masters degree.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by willbird View Post
                          And that is what about 3x what a soldier on the line in the sandbox earns ? And those guys cannot say "I'm not doing that, I quit, I'm done, seeya"

                          Bill
                          3X more than a soldier in the sandbox? Hardly. I am an Army Reserve 1LT( soon to be Captain) and make close to six figures while I am active. While I am not currently in a deployed environment, others with my pay grade who have much more dangerous MOSes are. So, when you figure base pay, BAH, BAS, separartion and combat pay, all tax free, this is incorrect. Granted enlisted folks make less but they still make out OK.


                          "Jerry, just remember, it’s not a lie if you believe it". George Constanza.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Ex Army MP View Post
                            3X more than a soldier in the sandbox? Granted enlisted folks make less but they still make out OK.
                            i really like to have this fixed up the right way. soldiers fight and sacrifice many things. they made much less than what civilian sector make. the whole thing is screwed up. yet the problem is the system thought is proper and it is not. hell, a bunch of bankers and insurance agents and lawyers and politicans and fatcats and wall street hustlers made riduculous money when soldiers bled and done the job. it should ve be the other way around. it screwed up. aint right.
                            break censorship chains

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by mallninja View Post
                              That is unique. Any pd I'm aware of if NJ making over 100k requires at least an associates with 2 years of law enforcement experience but more than likely won't hire unless you have a bachelors or above.

                              Not to mention in my pd Sgt's and up must have a minimum of a masters degree.
                              MallNinja, you obviously have no clue about something called CIVIL SERVICE. I make 101K a year in a civil service department and there are many of us here in NJ who do make 100K or more in departments that do NOT require any college.
                              " The Beatings will continue until Morale Improves "

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by pfchell View Post
                                i really like to have this fixed up the right way. soldiers fight and sacrifice many things. they made much less than what civilian sector make. the whole thing is screwed up. yet the problem is the system thought is proper and it is not. hell, a bunch of bankers and insurance agents and lawyers and politicans and fatcats and wall street hustlers made riduculous money when soldiers bled and done the job. it should ve be the other way around. it screwed up. aint right.
                                No offense. I really want to try and understand your posts. However, the language barrier makes this extremely difficult.


                                "Jerry, just remember, it’s not a lie if you believe it". George Constanza.

                                Comment

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