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  • #31
    By oldest sisters brother in law was a CHP officer who retired in early 2000's

    In around 1985 or so he was considering moving back to Iowa (home state) & had talks with the Iowa Patrol. In the end he could not justify taking such a pay cut,,-------even though he would have had pretty much the same standard of living.

    He DID move back home when he retired......................................and lived very well.

    An Iowa trooper now tops out @ about 65k

    As a Corrections supervisor I topped out about the same...........................I paid 7.62% of that into my pension fund & am making out real well on the 67.5% retirement thank you!

    HOWEVER I have to pay for insurance. As a state employee I paid 2-300 dollars a month for pretty good insurance until the union took a wage freeze one year -------but got new insurance that cost the employee nothing.......................so it actually gave us a 300 dollar a month raise. (That same policy now costs about 1100 a month.............and when my sick leave payout runs out in 18 months I will have to pony that much up to keep the policy)

    Our governor wants to cut wages and make the employee pay for part of our insurance......................................... something he gave us in negotiations the first time he was governor..........go figure.
    Since some people need to be told by notes in crayon .......Don't PM me with without prior permission. If you can't discuss the situation in the open forum ----it must not be that important

    My new word for the day is FOCUS, when someone irritates you tell them to FOCUS

    Comment


    • #32
      Originally posted by Magic Matt View Post
      The unions did it to US Steal, the auto industry and much of the industrial manufacturing base. They can’t ship police jobs overseas, but they can RIF to get their budgets balanced.
      The "unions" killed off the steel, auto and manufacturing industries in the U.S.? Funny, why couldn't those businesses move to states like yours, instead of countries like Mexico, India, and China? Manufacturing jobs like those described weren't killed off by unions, they were eliminated by modernization and multinational corporations that had the ability (unions or not) to ship work overseas where workers live and work under conditions unacceptable even in states like yours.

      How many times have we read posts here by police officers working in "right to work" states, where cops aren't paid squat, aren't provided with decent safety equipment, and aren't backed up by sufficient numbers of co-workers to address their concern for safety and the needs of the community? How many times do we hear about their poor management, lack of civil service protections, and lack of department funded training? How many of these officers have the ability to send their kids to college, retire at an age where they've got a few years still left to enjoy it, travel or work part time because they want to (rather than out of necessity)?

      Unions didn't cause the recession (which hit "right to work" states just as hard as those that allow public employee unions"), but big businesses recognize a good scapegoat when they need one and aren't going to let an opportunity like this get away. Police officers, firefighters, paramedics and other public safety employees aren't working "for profit" enterprises, they're providing public services to the citizens at large. You can't compare their duties to those "private sector" jobs for a reason: They're essential services and not luxuries. While the rich may have less opportunities to rely on these services than those who aren't, they still enjoy the benefits of safer streets and neighborhoods because of them.

      I don't believe cops and firefighters should strike (when threatened with arbitrary pay/benefit cuts), there's a simple solution called binding arbitration that's conveniently ignored by those whose principal concern is cutting their own tax liability. If they really cared about fair compensation for public service, they'd discuss it. They don't and never have. No matter how much (or little) money is spent on public safety, it will always be "too much" and their claims to support LE will be proven to be nothing more than hot air.
      "I'm not fluent in the language of violence, but I know enough to get around in places where it's spoken."

      Comment


      • #33
        Originally posted by pulicords View Post
        The "unions" killed off the steel, auto and manufacturing industries in the U.S.? Funny, why couldn't those businesses move to states like yours, instead of countries like Mexico, India, and China? Manufacturing jobs like those described weren't killed off by unions, they were eliminated by modernization and multinational corporations that had the ability (unions or not) to ship work overseas where workers live and work under conditions unacceptable even in states like yours.

        How many times have we read posts here by police officers working in "right to work" states, where cops aren't paid squat, aren't provided with decent safety equipment, and aren't backed up by sufficient numbers of co-workers to address their concern for safety and the needs of the community? How many times do we hear about their poor management, lack of civil service protections, and lack of department funded training? How many of these officers have the ability to send their kids to college, retire at an age where they've got a few years still left to enjoy it, travel or work part time because they want to (rather than out of necessity)?

        Unions didn't cause the recession (which hit "right to work" states just as hard as those that allow public employee unions"), but big businesses recognize a good scapegoat when they need one and aren't going to let an opportunity like this get away. Police officers, firefighters, paramedics and other public safety employees aren't working "for profit" enterprises, they're providing public services to the citizens at large. You can't compare their duties to those "private sector" jobs for a reason: They're essential services and not luxuries. While the rich may have less opportunities to rely on these services than those who aren't, they still enjoy the benefits of safer streets and neighborhoods because of them.

        I don't believe cops and firefighters should strike (when threatened with arbitrary pay/benefit cuts), there's a simple solution called binding arbitration that's conveniently ignored by those whose principal concern is cutting their own tax liability. If they really cared about fair compensation for public service, they'd discuss it. They don't and never have. No matter how much (or little) money is spent on public safety, it will always be "too much" and their claims to support LE will be proven to be nothing more than hot air.
        Well said.
        I make my living on Irish welfare.

        Comment


        • #34
          Starting pay for patrol in my area is 23k. The guys I work with do not complain. They do the job because they love it. They, like me, simply work two jobs.

          Even with the low pay I'm not for unionizing. I'm sure I'll be flamed for that here but I really don't care. I didn't put it here to debate the merits, just stating an opinion. If others want unions where they are that's fine by me.

          Comment


          • #35
            Originally posted by Magic Matt View Post
            LAPD pay is reasonable and maybe under paid compared to other local agencies;
            But California’s problem is not pay for public employees, it’s a pension mess caused by many factors that is busting CA budget.
            You have no idea what you're talking about. LAPD (like all City of Los Angeles employees) has it's own pension program and isn't part of the state retirement plan CalPERS. While many cities in CA do participate in CalPERS, the taxpayer costs make up only 4% of the total state budget. The City of Los Angeles and County of Los Angeles offer retirement benefits nearly identical to those provided by the state retirement system. While some attack them as "too good" (compared to private sector pensions), these same idiots fail to note that few people in private industry even save for their retirement needs. The "average" retirement savings per person in CA is less than $60,000.00 total.

            The problem with our state (and by extension city/county) financial woes is directly related to the fact that most public expenditures are funded from property taxes. Property values in our state (like most states in the country) were hit hard by the recession and until they reach their previous level, state funding will also be diminished. While businesses do have a hard time in our state (because of environmental laws and other factors), it's simply untrue that our pension system is responsible for the current situation. It's nothing but a convenient excuse to attack public employees, so tax liabilities can be reduced for big business and wealthy residents. Scapegoats and class-warfare were conveniently used in the past by those on the left and now they're being used by those on the right.
            "I'm not fluent in the language of violence, but I know enough to get around in places where it's spoken."

            Comment


            • #36
              I think the departure of the steel industry is largely due to environmental issues, although the cost of labor was certainly a consideration.

              For the auto industry, the argument that it was killed by the unions is much stronger. Foreign manufacturers have opened plants in the U.S., and continue to do so. (Hyundai, with a new plant in Alabama, is the latest.) The foreign plants are not unionized. The states in which they locate also have more flexible labor laws and generally lower taxes.

              I also believe that union states suffered more from the recession than did right-to-work states, most obviously because of what happened in the auto industry. And new jobs are being created more rapidly in right-to-work states.
              Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored. -- Aldous Huxley
              Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity. -- Albert Einstein

              Comment


              • #37
                Originally posted by pulicords View Post
                The "unions" killed off the steel, auto and manufacturing industries in the U.S.? Funny, why couldn't those businesses move to states like yours, instead of countries like Mexico, India, and China? Manufacturing jobs like those described weren't killed off by unions, they were eliminated by modernization and multinational corporations that had the ability (unions or not) to ship work overseas where workers live and work under conditions unacceptable even in states like yours.

                How many times have we read posts here by police officers working in "right to work" states, where cops aren't paid squat, aren't provided with decent safety equipment, and aren't backed up by sufficient numbers of co-workers to address their concern for safety and the needs of the community? How many times do we hear about their poor management, lack of civil service protections, and lack of department funded training? How many of these officers have the ability to send their kids to college, retire at an age where they've got a few years still left to enjoy it, travel or work part time because they want to (rather than out of necessity)?

                Unions didn't cause the recession (which hit "right to work" states just as hard as those that allow public employee unions"), but big businesses recognize a good scapegoat when they need one and aren't going to let an opportunity like this get away. Police officers, firefighters, paramedics and other public safety employees aren't working "for profit" enterprises, they're providing public services to the citizens at large. You can't compare their duties to those "private sector" jobs for a reason: They're essential services and not luxuries. While the rich may have less opportunities to rely on these services than those who aren't, they still enjoy the benefits of safer streets and neighborhoods because of them.

                I don't believe cops and firefighters should strike (when threatened with arbitrary pay/benefit cuts), there's a simple solution called binding arbitration that's conveniently ignored by those whose principal concern is cutting their own tax liability. If they really cared about fair compensation for public service, they'd discuss it. They don't and never have. No matter how much (or little) money is spent on public safety, it will always be "too much" and their claims to support LE will be proven to be nothing more than hot air.
                Iowa is a "right to work state" in that you are not obligated to join a union in order to work.......................THAT is what "right to work" actually means.

                Iowa allows public workers to be unionized and utilizes binding arbitration . It works.......................I have been on both sides of the bargaining table during talks and neither side really wants to go to arbitration. It has happened a few times........................and the union usually won because they had the most fair proposal.
                Since some people need to be told by notes in crayon .......Don't PM me with without prior permission. If you can't discuss the situation in the open forum ----it must not be that important

                My new word for the day is FOCUS, when someone irritates you tell them to FOCUS

                Comment


                • #38
                  Originally posted by pulicords View Post
                  How many times have we read posts here by police officers working in "right to work" states, where cops aren't paid squat, aren't provided with decent safety equipment, and aren't backed up by sufficient numbers of co-workers to address their concern for safety and the needs of the community? How many times do we hear about their poor management, lack of civil service protections, and lack of department funded training? How many of these officers have the ability to send their kids to college, retire at an age where they've got a few years still left to enjoy it, travel or work part time because they want to (rather than out of necessity)?
                  Where does this stereotype come from? It seems whenever I discuss 'union state vs right to work state' with someone they assume that because I live in a RTW state that I have absolutely no job security, my co-workers are morons and I barely make enough to eat everyday?

                  I've worked for three depts in three different states. Two were RTW and one was in a union state. The latter was considered one of the best depts to work for in the region, was suppose to have the best training and equipment and newest attitudes and ideas for 'modern' policing. What I found when I worked there was a department that couldn't do anything without getting the approval of the FOP heads and had outdated cars, equipment and you were lucky if you got any training beyond the mandatory inservices. Whenever we would get new equipment the brass would tout it as a new step in our ' commitment to be on the frontline of modern police tactics and technology'. But more often than not, whatever their new toy was I have been using it for years with my previous dept in a RTW state.

                  After two years I got fed up and moved back south and signed on with another dept, making more and not having to worry about the FOP negotiating my raise or schedule or days off or whatever. Amazingly, despite my RTW status I don't come to work in fear of someone just deciding to fire me on a whim or my 'lack of civil service protection'.

                  But hey, what do I know? I'm just a stupid southerner who has no rights because I don't have a union to stand up for me and naturally there is no way I attended college because due to everybody's low salaries down here no one can afford it.

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by Magic Matt View Post
                    http://realestate.yahoo.com/neighborhoods


                    Cost of Living Index

                    Sea Bright New Jersey – 131
                    San Diego California – 129
                    My City South Carolina - 158
                    Wow - that's a shame. Mine is 82. The highest I've lived in is a 96, in the DFW area. Texas rules!!!
                    If trees could scream, would we be so cavalier about cutting them down? We might, if they screamed all the time, for no good reason.

                    ---Jack Handey

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by pulicords View Post
                      You have no idea what you're talking about.

                      CalPERS reported a loss of $56.2 billion for the fiscal year that ended June 30, 2009.
                      CalSTRS posted a loss of $43.4 billion in 2009.

                      That's NOT a pension problem?



                      http://reason.org/news/show/fix-cali...pension-crisis
                      Last edited by Magic Matt; 03-04-2011, 03:13 PM. Reason: added link
                      Good people sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        That is one of the funniest things I have every read... We work as cops because we love the job and we simply work TWO jobs to make ends meet.That is one of the most retarded statements I have ever read in defense of not having a union!!!!!!

                        I worked for a non-union company as a LP Investigator. Management would give these employees a raise of 25cents and you know what most of the employees would say? Well it's better than nothing!!! It's also better than being kicked in the nuts. Management would sit up in the offices and laugh. Management (which LP fell under) were getting one to two dollar per hour raises.

                        I did not go to college for all those years and make all those sacrifices for a job I love, only to work two jobs to make ends meet for my family. Nobody gets into this line of work for the money, but I damned well expect to make a livable wage, an acceptable benefit package, and a retirement that I can enjoy while making up for all that lost time with the family. It's called an investment. If you want to live your life like a peasant, knock yourself out.
                        Calling an illegal alien an "undocumented immigrant" is like calling a drug dealer an "unlicensed pharmacist"

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Originally posted by Magic Matt View Post
                          LAPD pay is reasonable and maybe under paid compared to other local agencies;

                          LAPD PO1 $45,226 - $61,095
                          LAPD PO2 $61,095 - $80,075
                          Now that is funny!!!!!!! NJ cops make too much at $90K compared to SC Troopers, but LAPD pay is reasonable if not too low at $10K less than NJ pay. Please explain this rationale. I'm sure it won't make any sense, but humor me.
                          Last edited by BigDog4907; 03-04-2011, 03:43 PM.
                          Calling an illegal alien an "undocumented immigrant" is like calling a drug dealer an "unlicensed pharmacist"

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Originally posted by BigDog4907 View Post
                            Now that is funny!!!!!!! NJ cops make too much at $90K compared to SC Troopers, but LAPD pay is reasonable if not too low at $10K less than NJ pay. Please explain this rationale. I'm sure it won't make any sense, but humor me.
                            Do you understand the difference between median and maximum? Apparently not.
                            Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored. -- Aldous Huxley
                            Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity. -- Albert Einstein

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Originally posted by Magic Matt View Post
                              Just as a comparison, Top pay for a SC Trooper is $46,033 that’s at over 20 years service, a Lance Corporal is only $39,579, a Senior Trooper gets $37,695….
                              And just as a comparison, Michigan State Troopers make $62K a year. What is your point???

                              Should all officers make what a SC Trooper makes? Is it a case of....if you make more than I do then it isn't fair???
                              Calling an illegal alien an "undocumented immigrant" is like calling a drug dealer an "unlicensed pharmacist"

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Originally posted by DAL View Post
                                Do you understand the difference between median and maximum? Apparently not.
                                Nope, I'm just a northern. Maybe if you use simple words, write real slow and use a crayon it might help me.

                                So what is the difference that the AVERAGE pay in the ENTIRE state of NJ is supposedly $90K and the pay of a LAPD officer is $80K? Do you have a point, or just wanted to get in on the thread?
                                Calling an illegal alien an "undocumented immigrant" is like calling a drug dealer an "unlicensed pharmacist"

                                Comment

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